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What were they thinking?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-2022)' started by primecandidate, Aug 14, 2017.

  1. primecandidate

    Joined:
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    2017 Prius Prime
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    Plug-in Base
    I've had the Plus for 10 days now.
    What were they thinking when they designed the....

    1--Seat.
    I've spent $200 (and counting) on various seat cushions and my back still hurts. (Disclosure: I have bulging lumbar and cervical discs. In my 2003 Echo, the problem was remedied with a rolled-up towel and some wooden beads.)
    I slide the seat forward and back.
    I lift the steering wheel up or down.
    I pump the seat up or down.
    I try the rolled-up towel again.
    I put memory foam underneath my butt, more memory foam as a lumbar pad, more foam in front of the head rest.
    I've ordered the "purple" mattress material (it hasn't arrived yet).
    I've tried a combo wooden bead cushion plus memory foam cushion.
    Yet my back still hurts! My feet don't seem to have a comfortable place to rest while driving. How can they mess up something as fundamental as a car seat?
    The Prime's being so low doesn't help matters any. I have to literally "fall into" the seat getting in. Getting out, I have to swing my feet out first, extracting them from underneath the obtrusive steering wheel, then pull myself up by holding onto the door. Huh???

    2--Shiny stuff.
    All that shiny silver trim around the computer, all that shiny black and white porcelain-looking trim above the computer screen and along the front dash.
    When the sun hits that trim (it's even on the steering wheel, for pete's sake), spectral glare happens. It hurts my eyes. I have to squint.
    I've taken to--get this --draping a towel from above the computer, down in front of the screen, and along the cup holder...all the way to the arm rest. Just so my eyes don't go blind.

    3--Sounds.
    Those hums, buzzes, clicks, whines, rumbles, roars that come from under the hood are intimidating, making me realize I have no clue what's going on. It's a software-driven car.
    Mr. "finance manager" capitalizes on those fears, prompting me in a moment of weakness to pay $2000 for a Vehicle Service Agreement (6 years or 125,000 miles).
    Now that common sense prevails a week later, I've decided to cancel. If I end up spending $2000 for repairs over the first five years, I'm selling. I'll consider it a lemon...or an experiment gone bad.
    My old Toyota Echo was maintenance free for the first 10 years.
    The Prime "sounds" like it's a maintenance nightmare waiting to happen. Of course, only Toyota can fix this vehicle. No over-the-counter parts for this car.
     
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  2. mmmodem

    mmmodem Senior Taste Tester

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    1. Agreed, seats are not that great. But for the price I don't expect them to be any worse than a Camry. And they are not, so no complaints here. Could be better but I'm not willing to pay for it.

    2. Agreed, shiny stuff sucks. Have you driven in a setting or rising sun. The glare makes the screen impossible to see. I once had a metal H Honda emblem on the steering wheel. It caught the evening Sun on my commute home every day to glare right in my eye. I put a piece of traps over it. Theres fewer of these chrome pieces in a Prius thank goodness.

    3. Agree with first half of what you say but not the second half. There's no data to say this will be a nightmare or only Toyota can repair. It may be true but it's not for certain. I got a 130k miles on my plug in Prius over 5 years. The space ship sounds are still sounding. I changed the oil in my Prius and it used some new fangled oil filter enclosure that was stuck. I put a screwdriver through it to get it off like i do for other stuck oil filters. Now I have to buy a new enclosure and it is over the counter buy on Amazon. Why? It's a Prius. While I may be ignorant of the new technology in it, hundreds of thousands of Prius roam this planet. There is a healthy aftermarket for replacement and maintenance parts.
     
  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I'm sorry you are not so happy with your new Prime. With my experience on PRIME Premium now 17 days and counting with 8+ hours/day drives on highway twice, I must say I am very happy with its seat. It is far better than my previous Gen3 Prius Two or pre-previous Honda Civic Hybrid. While I really dislike Softex pleather material, and much prefer cloth seats of Plus model, Premium model came with power seat and inflatable lumber support. I think that is what made my back to feel much more comfortable. The only other car I have driven that had inflatable lumber support on driver seat is our 2005 Sienna minivan. I haven't felt this good sitting on a car seat on long drive since the inflation pump on Sienna broke quite sometime ago. On the other hand, the glare on shinny trims on Plus must be far better than direct reflection of sunbeam from 11.6 inch screen on Premium or Advance. I hate it. I didn't really want the screen, but the dealer did not have Plus model available at the time. As for the repair issue, in 10 days of ownership, I already found out that there is shortage of parts for this vehicle. I had windshield chip on my car after only 10 days of ownership, and currently there is no windshield parts to replace it anywhere in the US. That said, despite some deficiency, I still like the way PRIME drives far better than Gen3. And ability to plug-in to bypass the gas station for most of my short commute need is priceless.
     
    #3 Salamander_King, Aug 14, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2017
  4. Alan Winston

    Alan Winston Junior Member

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    I test drove a PriPri Advanced on Friday, and noticed immediately that the dash's chrome (and white splotches) were a problem - not a deal breaker, but definitely due for some dark tape.

    But I didn't notice that ...

    4--Cruise Control can only be set from 30 mph (50 km/h) and up?
    I have regularly used CC to keep myself at 25 on roads that have that limit, but "seem" like 30-35 mph streets and are known for strict enforcement. 50 years of driving on one stretch and I never got comfortable on it until I had cruise control. Now I'm supposed to give that up? I keep hoping the manual is wrong.
    --

    I also test drove the Chevy Volt Friday, which I liked, but at the end of the PriPri drive, I was ready to buy the Toyota. Saturday, while driving errands (including some of the same roads as the Volt drive), I was consciously thinking along the way which of the two plug-ions I would rather be driving, and more often than not, it turned out to be the Volt -- I wanted the steering wheel paddle for regen braking (in addition to the light touch on brake pedal and shift option), I wanted the easy and obvious dashboard indication of miles of ev mode remaining and miles of hybrid remaining)

    Fortunately, the CFO (my sweetie) and I decided to spend some more time researching, instead of going ahead and buying the PriPri. I'm supposed to add pure hybrids to the mix, as long as they have ACC, which brings the Kia Nico into consideration, largely for its greater ground clearance, though the topology-aware predictive eco-driving assistance is really appealing. Maybe I can stall her enough that the Nico plug-in will be an option (she's the one that had been pushing for a quicker purchase and budgeting for hybrid instead of cheaper gas).
     
  5. Alan Winston

    Alan Winston Junior Member

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    Conversation with a (German brand) service manager, circa 1983, on a warranty repair shortly after I acquired the vehicle: "We can't find your part in the US, so we're getting it from Germany by air, it should be here in a few days." "What's the part?" "(mumble)" "I'm sorry, what was the part?" "(louder mumble)" "Please, speak up, I can't understand you." "The engine."
     
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  6. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    Mr. Candidate, my first reaction to your post was, Hunh, What, Wow!! This person must've purchased a different car than me!! The back pain you suffer must be similar to mine (I've been diagnosed with several damaged lumbar discs and have floating meniscus in my left leg from a break), which is miserable and makes it difficult to stand for any amount of time, let alone walk. I feel your pain! HOWEVER, with my Advanced and doses of Naproxen Sodium, I have found it possible to enjoy being seated for, so far, up to 4 hours at a time. This is the first car in some 20 years of mainly Hondas, Acura, and Prius PIP, that I've been able to forgo the rolled up towel!!
    The only better seating was in my Alfa Romeos, in particular my Milano Verde which came standard with cloth-covered, heated (driver) Recaro seats.
    My orthopedic surgeon had me do special abdominal strengthening exercises, and walking daily (though painfully) helps.
    My Advanced has a medium added tint which, regardless of my direction of travel must eliminate almost all the glare problems you describe. My annoyance with the screen is its static electrical ability to attract dust; I deal with that using a clean lint-free cloth kept in the pouch behind the passenger seat.
    Noises under the hood ??!! Whut, hunh??!! I guess my approaching 68th year here on earth has blessed me with poor hearing??!! My windows are kept closed most of the time with A/C turned on, due to the 90° or so average temperatures in Anaheim right now.
    My 103,000 mile experience, coupled with the experiences of my youngest son, my youngest sister, and my 2 daughter's in law, all of us with perfectly running Prii begs me to differ with your opinion vis a vis the reliability of this admittedly complex car. My new Prime, now with over 8,000 miles, has been an excellent, if quirky example of modern, reliable, quality engineering. I'm glad you cancelled that extended warranty; having worked for a Toyota dealer about 30 years ago, I can tell you those warranties are just dealer money-makers when it comes to Toyotas. I feel badly that you have soured on your new car; your salesrep should have done a better job presenting the car to you to make sure it was right for you. All I can say is, try to see the good things that attracted you to the car originally, and maybe consider tinting the glass. Good luck!

    .
     
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  7. jaqueh

    jaqueh Active Member

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    1. I love the seats on the plus. I find them to be pretty comfortable and I like cars that are lower to the ground so I can corner more aggressively. I will give you this: what is going on with the headrest. Why is it tilted so horizontally?

    2. I don’t like the black trim and actually wish my car had more of the china bone stuff. The piano black stuff gets dirty and scratched easily! And it attracts dust!

    3. At least you don’t have some weird rattle in your dash like mine!

    All in all though, I freaking love this car and have loved priuses ever since convincing my mom to get one in 2007. These are the best hybrid cars on the market.
     
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  8. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    I don't have experience with a Prius Prime...
    But it seems pretty obvious to me that going from a Toyota Echo to Prius Prime should be a HUGE upgrade.

    I wouldn't worry about reliability. Prius has a great reputation, and demonstrable history of being a well built reliable vehicle.

    Seat comfort can be a real problem with any vehicle. It's very subjective to the individual. If you have tangible back problems? It's possible the ergonomics of The Prius may never agree with your back. Sounds like you are trying to do what you can do to make it work, but if it doesn't? That could be deal killer.
    Evidently too late, but that's why I recommend anyone looking at (Any New Vehicle Really) a Prius, sit in it for a while, 30 minutes or more, to try to get an idea how the seats are going to work or not work for them before purchasing the vehicle. Too bad to discover it is so painful for you AFTER you have purchased.

    Given your dissatisfaction in only 10 days of ownership, I would HATE to recommend it, but perhaps getting out of the deal and trading in on something else might be the best move, even though it would be costly.


    Just sounds like you bought something you are REALLY not comfortable with...both physically and emotionally. Not sure this is a deal that is going to get better for you with time.
     
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  9. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    there have been many sad buyers remorse stories over the years here, due to the drivers seat, and gen 4 is supposed to be the best by far.
    it sounds like you never test drove one. i hope you find comfortable solution!(y)
     
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  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    My Prime is so quiet, I basically hear nothing from under the hood most of the time, including when the engine is running.

    The seats are the most comfortable I've ever had in a car, save for the lack of breathing of the Softex causing my back to overheat. The only seats I've ever been in that were more comfortable were stationary applications.

    The shiny stuff doesn't bother me at all.
     
  11. jaqueh

    jaqueh Active Member

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    Coming from a gen 2 the engine noise intrusion is basically nonexistent.
     
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  12. primecandidate

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    The Plus has tinted windows, probably the same amount as yours. In PA where I live, I can't legally tint the windows. (I bought the car in NY as it's not available here.)
    The various sounds I hear are the ones you hear too. They're all part of the on-off process for a multitude of functions. Stepping on the brake before powering up generates a whirl. It gets to the point, though, where merely looking at the vehicle causes a sound to emit!
    I'm telling myself my next car (I'm 64 years old) will be one I step up into....or at least I can slide in sideways like every other car I've owned. Dropping down into a seat is just too much for me, though.
    No, I test drove it twice. The nature of my back pain, however, manifests after more than the usual 10-15 minute test drive. The day I bought it, I spent 15 minutes in front of the salesman fooling around with the seat, placing my towel in the crack, putting the wooden beads over the seat. I eventually told him "I'll figure it out."
    Ten days later, I'm still trying.
     
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  13. primecandidate

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    Alas, I DO have a rattle in the dash, now that you mention it.
    It comes from behind the 7" computer screen. If I press on the upper edge of the screen, it disappears.
    So I ask myself, "Do I want to complain about this? Have some technician tear apart the dash, probably for the first time, all the while risking that he scratches something (impossible NOT to do with a black interior)?"
    No, I've decided to live with the rattle.
     
  14. HPrimeAdvanced

    HPrimeAdvanced Senior Member

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    My Honda seats were so uncomfortable, for so many hours of driving that I replaced the seats. It's expensive, but if your back is killing you...; I'd recommend the Recaros in cloth. They have showrooms where you can try them out. Of course you need to see how you fit in them in your Prime. These seats, depending on the model, have numerous adjustable bolsters and supports which are better than what is available on just about ANY car. The "dropping" in and out from the car I can't get behind; to me it's such a minor aspect of the total driving experience. If everything is accessible, seat support good, and interior is comfortable, I don't care if I have to hunch down a bit, even with my lousy back and leg.

    .
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yeah, you'd have to rent one to know about the seats, my wife isn't comfortable in anything but a camry.
    but i was thinking more about #2 and 3.
     
  16. jaqueh

    jaqueh Active Member

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    The rattle is really disconcerting. It seems that too many primes here with the 7” screen have it.
     
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Well, the gen 2 thermos bottle is gone so you won't be hearing that filling and emptying.
    The brakes were the main source of noises though. Without the ICE running enough, they need another source to make vacuum pressure to power them; there is a pump and accumilator.
     
  18. 'LectroFuel

    'LectroFuel Senior Member

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    It sounds like you'd like the Kia Niro. It's less controversial in many ways (and more conventional). Access would be easier and the interior is straightforward. Has less cargo space though. Crossovers seem like they are made for people with back problems and the older crowd. Also, the Kia will probably be more of a "maintenance nightmare" because the Prius has been on sale in the U.S. since 2000 and has some of the best reliability ratings of any car. Dealers and mechanics have experience with the Prius. The Kia has been out for a few months and it has a dual clutch auto:unsure:.
     
  19. 'LectroFuel

    'LectroFuel Senior Member

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    It sounds like you'd like the Kia Niro. It's less controversial in many ways (and more conventional). Access would be easier and the interior is straightforward. Has less cargo space though. Crossovers seem like they are made for people with back problems and the older crowd. Also, the Kia will probably be more of a "maintenance nightmare" because the Prius has been on sale in the U.S. since 2000 and has some of the best reliability ratings of any car. Dealers and mechanics have experience with the Prius. The Kia has been out for a few months and it has a dual clutch auto:unsure:.