What would be more offensive? To burn the American Flag or to burn the bible?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(withersea @ Jul 17 2006, 12:54 PM) [snapback]287647[/snapback]</div>

uh, the Queen's English (for a while, anyways. It'll be a sad day when she's gone). In fact, there's a rather funny song about that silly misconception.

 

OK, so no one is upset about burning flags (or otherwise desecrating them, which is what the real flap is about).

Are you ready to overturn the laws against burning crosses? Cross burnings are illegal in certain places, and the courts have upheld them. Seems to me that's the same kind of "speech" as burning a flag, and just as offensive. So what's the difference?

 

Neither.

It seems in this day and age, the most offensive thing anyone could do, is something to the Quran. You don't even need to burn it, if someone tosses it into the toilet it will make headlines all around the world, rally jihadists, result in bombings, kidnapping, tortures, etc.

 

Whatever you choose to burn, at the very least capture the energy
from it, and use that to, oh, I do not know, charge batteries or something.
.
_H*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ Jul 17 2006, 08:36 PM) [snapback]287832[/snapback]</div>

I was referring to the King James version. So, what's the story on Queen's English?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Jul 18 2006, 12:34 AM) [snapback]287998[/snapback]</div>

cross burnings, around here anyway, seem to be tied more to hate groups (kkk, white separatists and the like) than to religious groups.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(galaxee @ Jul 18 2006, 07:28 AM) [snapback]288118[/snapback]</div>

That's my point. A few states have laws against burning crosses because it is patently offensive to some people. So I'm wondering if the group here would like to see these laws overturned, with a judicial prohibition on legislatures creating new laws banning the activity?

Seems like a certain denial of freedom of speech.

 

Surely they were fighting for the country of which the flag is a symbol? Or, in the case of WWII, for justice and freedom?

Anyway, interesting thread. Seems like Prius owners tend towards a certain section of society Who'd have thought it?

 

Someone did point out that you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than of seeing a flag burning.

 

The Brits use old flags as very good cleaning rags.

I think their days are numbered.

 

Its not about the flag, only what the flag represents.

If you desecrate it, you are desecrating what it means...if you deny that, then the flag mean't nothing to you in the first place.

but some get their jollys off because it means so much to someone else.

Its merely taking something precious to one person and descecrating it through whatever means to hurt and offend them in hopes to get what you want... whats the difference between that and terrorism?

You are not only desecrating what the flag means, but you are desecrating all those who love the symbol it represents.. "America".

So you are defecting both on America and those who love America.

I guess you have the right to do that... and they have the right to kick your nice person without you running to the police to save you.!

Its by no means an example of respect or honor to anything.

Yes, its a powerful statement, but I'm afraid you are not saying the statement you think you are saying.....

You do not earn respect nor influence.... only disrespect and enragement.

Your hate is satisfied in that its fire is spread to another and so the flame goes on eating you up.

Kinda like if you can't hit the person, then you take a precious vase and smash it against the wall?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Jul 17 2006, 09:34 PM) [snapback]287998[/snapback]</div>

Okay, first of all I don't consider the act of burning the flag "desecration". To me it is a form of political speach symbolizing a state of dispair about what is happening in the country. This is quite different than desecrating the falg. To me desecrating the flag would be to treat it is a manner of disrespect (that includes soiling it, wearing it as underwear, wiping your nice person with it, etc.) but the simple act of burning the flag is not, in itself desecration. If it was then the proscribed method for disposing of the flag would be something other than burning...right? In fact (as I recall) it was a common practice at one time that if the flag touched the ground it had to be burned. Some of the things that are being done today by our political leaders bring disrespect on our country and to our flag. This current debate about torture is making a statement to the rest of the world that the United States has lost our values. Once respect for the nation the flag symbolizes is gone then the flag is just a tattered piece of cloth.

It is unfortunate that people get all wrapped up in the symbol and forget about what the symbol stands for. Keep in mind that in Germany in the 1930's one of the things that the military had to do was swear a blood oath to the flag and their furher. The flag symbolizes what the country stands for and if the country is in the process of destroying itself because of the actions of its leaders and/or people then the symbol has no validity anymore and, in my opinion, the only way to respect that discarded symbol is to burn it.

The act of buring a cross, or other religious symbol is intended to incite people to strong action. The act of buring the flag is to wake people up to the fact that the symbol has lost meaning because of the way the country is conducting itself.

Wake up America we are our country and when our country is great because of the way we conduct ourselves on the world stage then nobody except those that want to provoke us will be buring our flag. And, when they do burn our flag, we will have the satisfaction of understanding that they burn our flag because they are envious of who and what we are. If the flag means so little because it has lost the respect of the citizens of our country then maybe we should be burning flags on every street corner until someone (in Washington) gets the idea that something is not right in the way the U.S. is conductiing itself.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(fshagan @ Jul 18 2006, 10:41 PM) [snapback]288564[/snapback]</div>

You are mistaken. The reason for laws against cross-burning is that it is construed as a direct threat of murder, as it is a ritual traditionally used by the KKK before a lynching, and by extension, the KKK would sometimes burn a cross on a person's lawn as a means of telling that person that he should stop supporting the human rights or civil rights of people of color or else he will be murdered.

Threating to murder someone is illegal.

And cross-burning is so well understood to be a threat of murder that laws have been passed against it to prevent the culprits from arguing later that they were just doing it to make some light for their religious meeting.

As for burning the Bible, an interesting side note is that the prefered method for obtaining ink with which to make tatoos in jail is by burning pages of a Bible. Bibles are generally printed on very fine paper, which leaves more ink and less ash when burned than other written materials, and both Bibles and matches are readily available in jail. I've never been able to understand why anyone would want the sort of home-made tatoos which are possible with the crude implements available in jail. But in this case, it's not an act of protest, and not done with the intention of offending anyone. It's just done to obtain ink.

 

Well. The bible has more pages and thus can be used for warmth or cooking. I know this doesn't answer the question. I am just saying burning the bible is more practical.

Besides, there is a bunch stuff in the bible that should be censored...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(windstrings @ Sep 21 2006, 12:55 AM) [snapback]322702[/snapback]</div>

Exactly - if the American flag means nothing to you and you choose to burn it with the knowledge that it has significant and important meanings to others (especially if they are fellow citizens) then you are intentionally harming another person - it is a moral and ethical decision on your part - it speaks more about who and what you are than just a simple act of burning a piece of cloth.

Go ahead burn the American flag - declare who you are, what you are to others, how others should perceive you. There are lots of ways to protest without inflicting pain and suffering on a significant number of your fellow citizens - a number of which served the flag - or who had family members serve and even a fair number who have been wounded or killed in defense of that flag -- whether or not you happen to agree with whatever conflict they served in. If you burn the flag to protest a war - you are directly harming those who chose to serve - you are in fact attacking them and indirectly aiding the enemy at that point if it is an active conflict.

Your choice - you are free to do whatever you want with it - I think how you treat the flag is more representative of who and what you are rather than how your are free to express yourself. That is what makes freedoms so great - they come with a set of responsbilities and reflections on their use.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2006, 10:58 AM) [snapback]322812[/snapback]</div>

Keep barking about the flag and keep pooping at the Constitution. It speaks lots about you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Sep 21 2006, 11:12 AM) [snapback]322819[/snapback]</div>

I do not understand your response.
I am not pooping at the constitution and I have done nothing except respect the American Flag - I occasionally do not bring it inside when it rains, but otherwise you will see it flying in front of my house every day.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2006, 11:37 AM) [snapback]322828[/snapback]</div>

cute, but try again

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hybridTHEvibe @ Sep 21 2006, 11:40 AM) [snapback]322829[/snapback]</div>

Sorry, but I am totally lost. Spell it out for the slow of thinking. Thanks in advance for your cooperation