What would YOU do?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 23 2007, 04:15 PM) [snapback]428774[/snapback]</div>

I would first ask for a warning and if that didn't work say I don't believe I was going as fast as he said I was and politely accept the ticket and then go to court to fight it. Kicking a cop in the nuts doesn't seem like a good way to avoid a speeding ticket although I admit I never tried it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Apr 24 2007, 01:42 AM) [snapback]428878[/snapback]</div>

Gee! I wonder why you didn't use a map from 850BC B)

 

WOW! I agree with the Squid! More or less. Our people have been devastated throughout the 20th century (I'm not familiar enough with earlier centuries to speak about them) and we have a right to defend ourselves, and to have a place we can live in peace.

HOWEVER that does not give us the right to drive the Palestinians out of their homes (as was done on the founding of Israel). And the tit-for-tat violence against civilians ON BOTH SIDES is reprehensible.

It was not the Palestinians who tried to exterminate us in WW II. It was the Germans. Instead of taking land from the Palestinians to build the Jewish state, there were two acceptable solutions:

1. Take Germany as reparations, and give it to the Jews, or, at the very least, take a chunk of it proportional to the pre-war population of Jews in Germany.

2. Create a secular state in Palestine where Jews and Palestinians would live together as equals.

The practical problem is that the Zionists were fundamentalist religious zealots who insisted that all of Palestine was ours and ours alone because their narrow reading of a two-thousand-year-old book says so. Any time clerics of any flavor gain political power the result is disaster.

And now we have the systematic fracturing of Palestine and the systematic "settling" of Jews on Palestinian lands, apparently calculated to ghettoize the Palestinians into tiny, isolated, fenced-in compounds, probably in the hopes that they will leave and go somewhere else.

The Palestinians are the new Jews. Segregated, excoriated, reviled. They have as much right to a homeland as we have. Israel has only three choices:

1. (The best choice) Allow the Palestinians to return, accept them as our cousins, which they are, make peace with them, and build a nation in which both peoples can live together in peace.

2. Exterminate them entirely. IOW, do to them what the Germans tried to do to us. Obviously, this is unacceptable, though there are extremist Zionists who would like to do this.

3. Live with perpetual guerilla warfare, as a people without a homeland fights for the land it was expelled from.

I don't know whether Squid is anti-Semitic. I highly doubt that he is. But is it NOT anti-Semitic to oppose the government of Israel and its treatment of the Palestinian people.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 24 2007, 12:46 PM) [snapback]429064[/snapback]</div>

how about the history of the palestinian people please. about what year did the palestinians originate? where have they spread too in terms of geographical locations (like the Jews being enslaved by the romans several thousand years ago - we can trace their footsteps to venice, rome, etc)?

And I am curious - you cannot find ONE great Palestinian person of note? Not one who has made a significant contribution to mankind? NOt one that advanced medicine? not one that has been awarded a Nobel Prize for science, economics? You cannot name one thing that they export to the world?

This has nothing to do with justifying ones existance. Everyone has a right to exist - including the Israeli's.

I look forward to your response.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 24 2007, 01:03 PM) [snapback]429078[/snapback]</div>

sick - "the palestinians are the new Jews" - obviously absolutely NO knowledge of history, no reality of truth - a state of denial or ignorance or both (no insult intended).

i suggest a thorough review of the worlds history books - not wikipedia - a real book or 30.

very very sad and scarrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

and at the very least - you are not a believer in the united nations - please do not every refer to them again as a body to be listened to - ever. and for that, i thank you as does president bush and the congress which overrode them on our way to iraq.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 24 2007, 12:03 PM) [snapback]429078[/snapback]</div>

In 1948 at the founding of Israel the Arabs were given a choice: become part of Isreal or become disposesed. The Arab league under pressure from the USSR convinced the majority of the Arabs living in the New Israel not to become Israeli citizens and leave their homes. The rest became citizens (hence the term Isreali Arabs) who have more civil right than any other majority Muslim groupe in the middle east. Another little talked about fact is that the Jews that had lived in peace all over the region were given a choice: leave or die, they left and their homes and property was seized by the Arab gov'ts. Then the synagogues were raised to the ground. How many Mosques has the Israeli gon't raised?

In 1992 when the peace process looked as though it would take off and hold who invested the most in Gaza and the West bank: Isreal. But there were 2 groups that did not want peace: Hezbulla (sp?), and Hamas. They did all they could to derail the process and it was working, so that when Yitzhak Rabin was killed it ended the enconomic boom the Palestinians had.

I am not saying the Israelies are without blame, but it would be hard to be objective if your neighbor thinks it is great to blow you up at any time and get into paradise.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Essayons @ Apr 24 2007, 01:40 PM) [snapback]429101[/snapback]</div>

correct.

and i am still waiting for my non-anti-semetic anti-israel "friend" to give me what i asked him for several times - a short historical synopsis of the Palestinian people - from when we first noted their appearance on planet earth till today. he was UNABLE to name ONE palestinian of "greatness" - from which mankind benefited.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Essayons @ Apr 24 2007, 01:40 PM) [snapback]429101[/snapback]</div>

the only thing i wanted to add was that the arab countries surrounding Israel decided to attack it immediately upon its receiving its Statehood - mind you they all had trained militaries - the Israelis had NOTHING except determination, will, intelligence, and a strond desire not to be slaughtered AGAIN.

is it not true that there was a "relationship" between the palestinians and Nazi Germany/Hitler?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 23 2007, 09:29 PM) [snapback]428788[/snapback]</div>

Of course, this kind of decision needs some fact finding. Does he/she really have a gun? Is the gun loaded, and with what kind of bullets? It would be wrong to just kick this other person without knowing these things. What if it's just a kind hearted guy (we'll call him Saddam for fun) and he's not really dangerous, just that you and everyone around you just thinks he is at the moment because of what he's said (reference the 'i have a gun to your head, hand me your money' statement).

Taking action is a big step and should be debated for years and years... way more than 12 years before doing anything at all. As we know, self defense is not an excuse to do harm to this guy who may not even really be holding a real gun with real bullets. Even if those are real, we should do a lengthy psychoanalysis to see if he even fits the profile of someone who would pull that trigger.

Your self defense quick reaction mentality is dangerous, and I for one am completely opposed to it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 24 2007, 02:57 PM) [snapback]429163[/snapback]</div>

nice try - as you know i am biased. you go for it. i am sure they have a long and glorious history stretching back milleniums..... . . . . .

you can ponder all you want - it would be better for you to ponder if you knew the facts involving the situation at hand. so i am waiting for your synopsis of the Palestinian peoples history..... . . . . .

or perhaps, you could not find it??? ? ? ? ? ? ?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 24 2007, 03:18 PM) [snapback]429180[/snapback]</div>

perhaps because there is NOT ONE TO GIVE. THEY DONT HAVE ANY SIGNIFICANT HISTORY!

IS IT NOT SAD THAT YOU CANT NAME ONE PALESTINIAN WHO HAS BETTERED MANKIND, WHO HAS CONTRIBUTED TO MEDICINE, WHO HAS SUED FOR PEACE, WHO HAS WON A NOBEL PRIZE FOR SCIENCE; OR YOU CANNOT NAME ONE PRODUCT THEY EXPORT, ETC, ETC?

BUT IN YOUR WARPED VIEW IT IS THE JEWS IN ISRAEL HOLDING THEM DOWN, PERSECUTING THEM, DESTROYING THEIR HOMES AND SCHOOLS, ETC, ETC.

DO YOU SEE EVEN THE TINIEST BIT THE FALSE CONSTRUCTS YOU OPERATE UNDER?

IN 59 SHORT YEARS WHILE SURROUNDED AND ATTACKED TIME AND TIME AGAIN AND WHILE MAINTAINING A PROSPECT FOR PEACE AND A WILLINGNESS TO SACRIFICE FOR PEACE BY RETURNING LAND TIME AND TIME AGAIN AND AGAIN THE ISRAELIS HAVE BUILT A SOCIETY, AN ECONOMY, A HIGHER EDUCATION SYSTEM, THEY HAVE ACCOMPLISHED GREAT THINGS - WHY HAVE NOT THE PALESTINIANS?????????

WHAT HAVE THEY SACRIFICED FOR PEACE. WHERE ARE THEIR PEACENIKS LIKE THE ISRAELIS HAVE? WHY CANT JEWS LIVE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE FENCE LIKE ARABS LIVE ON THE ISRAELI SIDE OF THE FENCE? ANSWER THAT ONE! WHY NOT CITE THE ARAB COUNTRIES FOR KICKING OUT THE JEWS - HOW MANY ARABS LIVE IN ISRAEL - WHAT % OF THEIR POPULATION IN ARAB? HOW MANY JEWS LIVE IN SYRIA IN EGYPT IN JORDAN IN SAUDI ARABIA...- WHAT % OF THEIR POPULATIONS ARE JEWISH --- AND WHY --- AND WHY DO YOU NOT RECOGNIZE THAT? HOW MANY MOSQUES ARE IN ISRAEL - AND HOW MANY SYNAGOGUES ARE IN THE COUNTRIES I LISTED ABOVE - AND WHY - AND WHY DO YOU NOT RECOGNIZE THAT TOO??

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Apr 24 2007, 02:04 PM) [snapback]429168[/snapback]</div>

daronspicher.
I agree with your denouncement of Bush for his Iraq invasion.But you lost me .Im seriously not being facetious. Arent you in favor of Bush and the Iraq war?

 

Just when I thought the d-man could sink no lower, he goes on a racist tirade against the Palestinian people, apparently trying to imply that since (in his racist fantasy) they are worthless people, they (in his racist opinion) do not deserve to have citizenship in a country.

And just as the most dispicable elements deny the holocaust, he denies the terrorism that was practiced by extremist Zionests against Palestinians living in what was to become Israel, to force them out. Even as on paper they were being offered the option to remain, on the streets they were being bombed out of their homes by the Stern gang.

The depressing thing is that on BOTH sides of this conflict, people are willing to sacrifice the lives of their grandchildren in order to avenge the deaths of their grandparents, assuring perpetual war.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 24 2007, 07:37 PM) [snapback]429372[/snapback]</div>

You are warped.

Name the extreme terrorism the "zionists" practiced on the palestinians please. Do you revise history all the time for yourself and for others?

In spite of the conditions in which the Israelis find themselves living under - they thrive - why? And why dont the Palestinians?

 

Can you really not see the difference? Do the Palestinians control the Israelis' borders? Do the Palestinians block the Israelis' exports? Did the Palestinians destroy the Israelis' airport? Do the Palestinians bulldoze Israeli houses? Do the Palestinians build walls through Israeli territory? Do the Palestinians divert Israeli water supplies? Do the Palestinians have laws written in their favour by the US government forcing US companies to do business with them?

Don't you bleat about "the conditions in which the Israelis find themselves living under", you sick bastard.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Apr 25 2007, 04:28 AM) [snapback]429644[/snapback]</div>

Thank you for the insult. An insult from the man who is well known as PriusChat's most consistent falsifier of information is a compliment indeed.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Apr 25 2007, 04:28 AM) [snapback]429644[/snapback]</div>

Just bombings and assassinations. Nothing much else. Doesn't take much else to frighten people into fleeing their homes.

In the years of the tit-for-tat violence since the conflict began, something like ten times as many Palestinians as Israelis have been killed, mostly unarmed civilians on both sides. Typically palestinians have snuck in and planted a bomb, or more recently a suicide bomber kills himself in the process. At the same time, Israel sends jets over to drop bombs from the air, generally killing ten times as many people.

And gradually Israel is taking more and more land, with the apparent goal of forcing the Palestinians out entirely.

And your racist tirade that the Palestinians do not deserve a homeland because (according to you) they are an inferior race, is the most despicable stream of verbal diarrhea I have seen on this board in the three years I've been here.