What would you purchase?

Yes. And for new technology to come. I believe Toyota is the leader in new technology for cars.

 

Wrong, but that's a common misconception that I myself used to make. Ford designed the Escape Hybrid completely by itself, including the entire hybrid drive. It had nothing to do with Toyota. However, their design was similar to Toyota's patented design which means they could get in trouble for using it, so they swapped patents with Toyota, because Toyota had developed a diesel engine that was similar to stuff Ford had patented. So each manufacturer gets to use their own technology without fear of patent infringement.

 

Just what I was about to say. Ford's hybrid drive is very similar to Toyota's Hybrid Synergy Drive... similar use of planetary gear, two electric motors, etc...

It's tough to say that Ford is really lagging behind Toyota. Toyota has a good couple of years more experience with the technology, but Ford has made some good progress as well...

Nevermind GM... Ford will be interesting to watch if they can turn themselves around with technology, better management, and some luck.

 

IMO it's just a survey and i voted toyota. let's face it, even the american manufacturers say that they're starting to "catching-up" to the reliability of japanese cars. which implies that they admit they are behind. it has nothing to do with being unpatriotic. it's just being having more faith in a manufacturer.

 

:huh:


BUY JAPANESE!
LONG LIVE THE EMPEROR!

BANZAI, BANZAI, BANZAI!!!



Thanks. I've always wanted to scream that. Must be genetic.

 

1: Toyota tops the Consumer Reports reliability index and the Consumer Reports customer satisfaction index. Prius is the #1 car for customer satisfaction. Ford is somewhere in the middle of the reliability and satisfaction rankings.

2. Toyota is building a big manufacturing plant outside San Antonio, Texas, and moving a chunk of their car production to the USA. (More info)

3. Ford has moved most of its manufacturing jobs out of the USA, particularly to Mexico, and most of its investment is abroad. (Article)

Conclusion: Buying a Ford because it's in some theoretical sense "American" is stupid, and there's no other reason to buy one over a Toyota.

 

As far as I'm concerned, Mal has highjacked this entire site. I'm not enjoying reading these posts so I'm out of here.

I'll visit back and see if Mal is gone in a couple of months. Maybe. Or just check in on the technical posts.

Sorry, I've enjoyed interacting with the vast majority of folks and I'll miss you.

 

Not to mention general engine technology. Honda/Audi/VW/Ford/BMW and everyone else basically are moving on with Direct Injection and Toyota's really lagging in this area.

 

I'm not sure I agree. Toyota has done little to advertise the Prius because they would have even bigger problems delivering if they generated more demand than they already have. They have been playing catch up since Nov 2003. OTOH, Ford & GM have successfully worked very hard to convince the consumer that what they REALLY need are big, high profit SUVs. You NEED a car that can do 0-60 in 7 or 8 seconds. It worked well until the price of gas skyrocketed a couple of months ago and they have little else to offer. Now they can't sell squat because those who are inclined to buy that type of vehicle just picked one up at "employee prices" in the last couple of months. I guess it got them off the lots and they are so marked up the companies might still have made money on them. Now they can lay off a bunch of workers while they wait for the price of gas to drop and for people to forget why they wanted more fuel efficient vehicles.
Sadly, at least the second half of that statement will be true regardless of the price of gas in a year or two unless it goes high and stays there.

I notice GM's current ads are pushing the big trucks and SUVs as "Professional Grade" since the company doesn't know what you might do with them. Well GM, I can tell you. Drive to work, take the kids to school, never go off a paved or unplowed road. 90% of people who buy them as non work vehicles do not need "Professional Grade" i.e. big and heavy. Don't need extra road clearance. Don't need to haul 2,000-4,000 pound trailers. Don't need 15 MPG. They would do better to design "Consumer Grade" vehicles.

 

I tell people that I would only have bought such a complex car from Toyota. Even then, I bought the extended warrantee, something I never do. I would not trust in such a new and complex car from another automaker.

I'm not just talking about the hybrid system. The displays, computers, and the many other gadgets are all potentially very expensive to repair. The documented quality and reliability of Toyota was the only reason I bought a this car. From any other maker, I would have passed.

As the technology matures, I might consider another company, but not now. I would perefer to buy from an American company, but I don't see comparable technology, quality, and reliability in any of them. Hopefully that will change.

 

In 1995 I bought a Nissan Quest Mini-van. The vehicle was jointly produced by Ford and Nissan and built in CA.

I have replaced every Ford part on the car at least once. The engine and drive train built by Nissan has never required any work other than routine maintenance.

I still own the van with ~147000 miles. I would never buy a Ford based on my experience with Ford parts on this vehicle.

It has nothing to do with patriotism and everything to do with economics.

 

Anyone else ever have a major Toyota failure? My new 1986 celica gts trans synchros went nipples up at 10k miles-response by the service mgr? "They're not all perfect!"

 

I've owned three Fords and have vowed, "Never again."

Fool me once, shame on you.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Fool me three times, I must be a blooming idiot.
Fool me four times...even blooming idiots wise up before then.

Jan

 

Don't you mean "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me ... ummm ahhh ... You can't get fooled again"

I've owned 4 Fords in the past, 1960 Ranch Wagon, high school beater OK for its age. 1964 Galaxie, great car, 289 engine, well over 100K when I traded it for a 69 Galaxie, not a good car but figuring everyone could make a lemon, I traded for a 71 LTD, total P.O.S.! paint fell off everytime I closed the door, where I parked at night it looked like a police chalk line that outlined the car only with paint chips! Then at 40,000 miles, engine craps out, broken rings on two pistons, wipped out the block as well.

Obviously no more Fords for me (actually I'm convinced that FORD is not a name, rather an acronym). Granted they seem to re-learn how to make engines again in the past 35 years, getting almost to the old 289 standard, but I see far too many rusted Fords for their age, often when they are only 4 to 5 years old there is visible rust while most every other brand is 2 to 3 times that age before any is noticable.

 

Yes... my Prius (first and last Toyota) died twice! I know it's sort of a dirty thing to say around here, but... it did happen. Toyota quality.

 

If one company makes a car, yet two companies sell it, then the car is basically the same, regardless which company you buy from. The main difference between the cars is likely to be cosmetic. The main difference between the companies is how they deal with the customer, and that one of the companies didn't produce the car. You are likely to have a different experience between two companies in the sales department as well as the service department. It's a matter of deciding which company you are more comfortable doing business with, and if you are satisfied buying a car from a company that did not manufacture the car. Assuming all major things are equal (warranty, overall cost, etc) I am more interested in doing business with the company that produced the car, and the company that provides the best customer experience in the service department.

The Ford Ranger and Mazda B-series are the same pickup, built by Ford. I'd buy the Ford Ranger.

The Toyota Matrix and the Pontiac Vibe are the same car, built by Toyota. I'd buy the Toyota Matrix.

To answer your question, I would buy the Toyota Prius because it is built by Toyota, rather than the (hypothetical) Ford Prius built by Toyota.

My point is that I would most likely buy the vehicle that was branded by the company who actually produced the vehicle.

 

Does anybody remember the Ford Pinto? Ford discovered, before selling a single unit, that the Pinto was defective: that, under certain crash conditions, the Pinto would explode and burn, killing and maiming the occupants. Ford calculated that it would cost less to settle the lawsuits than to recall the car. So it sold the cars without telling anyone about the defect.

There are probably legal reasons why the executives at Ford were not all sent to prison for life, and why all Ford stock was not confiscated and sold to compensate the victims and their families. But in my opinion, the Ford Motor Company is a corporate murderer.

I will never buy a Ford. Ever. Period.

That aside, Ford and Toyota would never build the same car. Even if the blueprints were identical, the Toyota would be well-assembled and reliable with a high level of quality control. The Ford would be below specs, would be shoddy, and would be a piece of junk.

Ford vs. Toyota: it's a no-brainer.