What's it worth in a trade

Discussion in 'Dealers & Pricing' started by egale, Feb 26, 2010.

  1. egale

    egale New Member

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    I have a 2010 II with under 3,000 miles. Also bought the 8 year 100,000 mile warranty.

    I have pretty much had it with the bad gas milage and am suffering a big case of buyers remorse.

    What is this car worth as a trade in. Not even sure what I want at this point but I know this is not the car for me!
     
  2. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    what would you get instead? it's almost certain to get worse mileage

    I haven't read all your prior posts and can't speak to your buyer's remorse, but what would you get instead? It seems extremely unlikely it would get mileage that's even equivalent to what the 2010 Prius can achieve in the same commute. Is it worth it to take a loss (since all cars lose a substantial amount of value once you drive it off the lot) and get something that has even worse FE?

    See where the Prius ranks at Most fuel-efficient cars. I can lookup the Consumer Reports FE results for cars not on this list for you, as comparison.

    Also see how the Prius did at http://www.edmunds.com/advice/fueleconomy/articles/153866/article.html.

    I know some of your posts mentioned EPA tests and it seems you had some expectations about your mileage via EPA estimates. Did you know they don't measure actual fuel usage? Did you know they don't drive on a real road? Did you know the average speed of the highway portions are only ~48 mph? Did you know the two portions of the test that are begun w/a cold engine are each 31.2 minutes long? Did you know they use a special blend of fuel for the test?

    The links at http://priuschat.com/forums/other-cars/67235-car-driver-truth-about-epa-city-highway-mpg-estimates.html give more info on the EPA test procedure.

    Your mileage will go back up once the cold weather is over. When the economy recovers and gas prices shoot up, I think you'd regret getting rid of your Prius.

    I know you've asked and answered some questions in various threads but perhaps it'd be helpful to copy and paste from http://priuschat.com/forums/gen-iii...ry-copy-paste-fuel-economy-questionnaire.html and let people help w/a post in the FE forum. I know you've asked about grille blocking (which would likely help). IIRC, I saw something about drives being 5 miles or less (yes, short drives will kill your mileage) but some of my q & a are good prompts for you to check other things. An engine block heater would help too, but that's way more expensive than trying grille blocking first.

    There are some other little hints like turning the fan to off (when heater is on) when you're stopped or at low speeds w/a cold ICE (internal combustion engine) to avoid it running to provide cabin heat. Only turn it on during hard accelerations or above ~42 (46?) mph or when the ICE is hot.
     
  3. egale

    egale New Member

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    I average about 34mpg. I will do a little better on the highway but the a couple of miles of around town driving lowers the mpg greatly. I have to drive up a hill to get home which is less than a quarter mile long and the mileage drop is usually .2 - .3 just going up that hill. It will take 10 miles of level highway driving to make up for that loss.

    A couple of months ago, I rented a Honda Accord. Its not my dream car by any means but it is more powerful, quieter, and it got 31mpg. My previous car, a Galant got between 17 - 23mpg winter summer spring fall rain sun snow. The EPA was 19/26 21 combined. The Prius is 50 combined. I get 34 which is 32% less than EPA. The Galant averaged 19. Thats 9.5% less than EPA. You see where I am going on this.

    The Prius percentage wise isn't even close to what it is advertised at. I didn't block the grill of my Galant, or inflate the tires to 100lbs or did pulse and glide etc. Winter didn't kill the mileage either. I drove the Accord normally and got 31mpg. I am very disappointed. At this point I would be happy with a car that got me in the 30s as advertised. Not sure what that is.
     
  4. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    If you've seriously given up after only a few months and 3000 miles, then it's all going to be the art of the possible.

    They say the biggest hit of depreciation with a vehicle is the second you drive it off the lot. That happened 2,999.9 miles ago. So you've lost 1000's of dollars in value vs. cost to purchase.

    I personally think given recent publicity this is probably the worst time to trade in a Toyota or try to sell one private party. But I could be wrong, competitors are offering "bonuses" to Toyota owners trading in Toyota's. Even though I suspect that is an easily executed shell game as far as value.

    My advice is make sure you are 100% sure you want to give up on Prius ownership and then just start investigating what is possible. Try to make sure what you are moving into, IS what you want.

    Also, Car dealers are going to want to sell you a car. You have a running and operating "new" car. This isn't an emergency situation. You can use that to your advantage. Even if you feel you don't want to drive The Prius another day, act like your willing to drive it for 10 years. The only way your really going to know what it is worth as a trade in, is to enquire locally as to how much you might be given. IMO keeping a minimum amount uncommunicated as to what you would accept is a good idea, then be willing to walk away if the new deal doesn't meet those expectations either in trade value or purchase price.

    There is no way to spin it too positively. If you are unhappy with an automobile purchase this soon after purchase you are just going to take a loss. The most troubling comment you make is that at this point you don't even know what you want. That's a big first step. Not knowing what you want, and just being unsatisfied with what you have is a recipee for continued disappointment.

    Winter is ending. What do you mean by "bad" gas mileage? If it's too bad, you might have an issue with the vehicle. With only 3000 miles on it, it's not even broken in yet. Of course the longer you wait, the more depreciation sets in, but the 2010 is a model year released early. If it's just mileage that is bothering you, you might investigate what is causing your mileage problem and wait and see what your mileage might be in the spring/summer. But you sound so upset, it might be hopeless case. Good Luck.
     
  5. PriusLewis

    PriusLewis Management Scientist

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    All you will get from this crowd is that it is your fault your Prius doesn't get the mileage it did inside a building on a set of rollers following a pre-determined driving cycle for the EPA. However, I fully agree that driven in what I consider to be a "normal" manner, the Prius will not get what the testing says. In the real world, it gets hot and cold. In the real world, there are potholes and hills.

    Good luck with your trade. With the current media frenzy against Toyota you might be able to get a decent trade only from Toyota (and, based on the almost universal hatred of dealers on this board, maybe not even there). I believe there are a number of cars that will get within a few percent of the real mileage of my Prius if driven the way I drive cars (no pulse and glide, use the heat and air, and inflate the tires to the factory recommended numbers). Unfortunately the book value of my Gen II has plummetted about $6,000 in the year I've owned it, putting me in a position where I cannot trade it off. If I had the cash I would do it anyway.
     
  6. JimN

    JimN Let the games begin!

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    A Prius II base sells for $23076 in NYC new. Don't know what dealers will offer but there are many IIs sitting on the lots. Best wishes for finding something that you'll be happy with.
     
  7. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    That's not true. I can't speak for "this crowd" and I think most of "this crowd" would probably not consider part of "this crowd" BUT to me it has nothing to do with EPA or Mileage. Bottom line if a person isn't happy with their vehicle (for any reason) and has the resources I don't care if it's a Prius or The Gleaming Chariot of The Gods and I don't care if it runs on the Petrol Souls of Dinosaurs or Gossamer Fairy Wings, I say move on.

    If finance and situational realities do not hinder change and you want it? Why not?

    There is no vehicle produced that is everything to everybody, as hard as manufacturers try.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm interested, what did you pay for it?
     
  9. TheSpoils

    TheSpoils Member

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    If I was not getting the 53-54 mpg that I have been averaging, I would probably be unhappy with the car also. Good Luck
     
  10. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    I have serious doubts about your "31 mpg" on the Accord being either an apples vs. apples comparison or being accurate. How long did you have it for? How much fuel did you put in? Did you drive it on the same commute in similar weather conditions for a long time? If you had it for a short period, you could have had a HUGE margin of error when filling up due to a short fill.

    I'd rent that Accord again for a much longer period of time w/your commute (in similar weather conditions), fill the tank and nearly empty it. Or do that on a car you're considering, if you care about its mileage.

    I'm not sure why you and at least one other notable person are so hung up about the winter mileage vs. EPA numbers, esp. when your drives, driving conditions, measurement methods, etc. don't resemble the EPA test cycles at all. Your winter numbers and city numbers are better than anything you can get w/a non-hybrid. If you average your summer and winter numbers, same story.

    You can blame your driving, your conditions, the EPA test procedure and optimizations done on cars to do well on the EPA test. I think it'd still be helpful to answer my questions and try to improve your mileage. Right now, I don't know what things you might be doing (besides your short drives and cold climates) that might be hurting mileage.

    FWIW, here are Consumer Reports mileage testing results. Unfortunately, there aren't any for a Galant 4-cyl of your generation.

    00 Galant ES 3.0L V6 4AT: 15 city/30 highway, 22 overall, 27 for 150 mile trip
    04 Galant ES 2.4L 4AT: 16 city/32 highway, 23 overall, 26 for 150 mile trip
    08 Accord LX-P 2.4L 4 5AT: 15/34, 23 overall, 28 for 150 mile trip
    08 Accord LX-P 2.4L 4 5MT: 18/35, 26 overall, 34 for 150 mile trip
    10 Prius IV: 32/55, 44 overall, 53 for 150 mile trip
    06 Civic EX 1.8L 5AT: 18/43, 28 overall, 34 for 150 mile trip
    06 Civic EX 1.8L 5MT: 22/40, 31 overall, 37 for 150 mile trip
    06 Civic Hybrid 1.3L CVT: 26/47, 37 overall, 45 for 150 mile trip

    If you want a gasoline or diesel fueled car w/better mileage than the 2010 Prius in the US of recent vintage, you'll need to buy a 2 seater 1st gen Insight that was discontinued in 06. CR's results were:
    00 Insight, 1.0L 5MT: 36/66, 51 overall, 61 for 150 mile trip

    They didn't test other model years or the CVT version.

    If mileage is your only/major hangup, I don't think it makes sense to trade for something that'll yield less mileage just for the sake of being closer to EPA numbers. From skimming your posts and comparing the high and low mileage ranges, it looks like you're getting roughly double the mileage you were on vs. your Galant.

    If money is a concern, I'd definitely look into selling private party instead of trading as dealers won't give you much on a trade. However NY lets trading in help you save on tax (What Fees Should You Pay?) unlike some other states, so run the numbers first. Maybe wait until gas prices hit $4/gal again?
     
  11. Wiserone

    Wiserone Member

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    My first day with my car I got 51 point something mpg through a blizzard. I had about 300 miles on the car. How can you be doing so bad with your car.....
     
  12. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    You're driving it in the winter. The Galant suffered the same proportional decrease in MPGs but it didn't have a real-time MPG display to make the drop obvious.

    No one here would tell you to inflate the tires to 100 PSI. 42 is plenty. Also go check the oil, it may be grossly overfilled.

    If you're not the kind of guy who likes to blow thousands of dollars on a whim (1), keep the Prius until summer, check the tire pressures every month, and see what happens to the MPGs. Otherwise trade it ASAP and make three people happy: you, the dealer, and the person who buys it.

    (1) but you may be :_> Buying an extended warranty is a waste of money.
     
  13. mindmachine

    mindmachine Member

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    I disagree with arguments on both sides of this issue.

    1. Hybrids do suffer a larger percentage drop in fuel economy in cold weather vs a standard ICE only that has to run all the time.

    2. Short trips impact hybrids more than standard ICE cars too.

    3. You do not have to baby a hybrid to get better fuel economy than standard ICE only cars. I had a 07 Prius and drove 75 and 80 MPH in South Carolina on the interstate with the AC on and still averaged 46 to 47 MPG.

    4. You do have to pay more attention to tire pressure to maintain MPG but you don't have to do without heat especially on highway commuting trips.

    5.Hybrids are more sensitive to conditions but will still do better than the standard ICE only car under the same circumstances including a more aggressive driver.

    When driving a hybrid like a Prius you notice the hit in MPG more because a 10% hit just looks bigger becaues it is 10% of a bigger number like a 5 mpg hit on 50 mpg vs a standard ICE only where for example a 10% hit on 25 mpg car is only 2.5 mpg loss and therefore looks smaller but it is still 10%.

    Its your money and the losses right now on a nearly new 2010 Prius will be big especially with what is going on now.

    Are you sure your discontent isn't really in part due to all the negative news about the product now being done by the news media.
     
  14. egale

    egale New Member

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    I won't argue the point about the Galant losing milage in the winter but the car did around 17 - 19mpg pretty consistently all year round and around 23 on the highway. The difference between 17 & 19 is about 10.5%. So 50 * 89.5% is 44.75. I am getting 34 with the Prius which is a drop of 32%. Will mileage improve in the summer? No idea.

    The Prius is an ok car but the big appeal was the mileage it was supposed to get. If I was averaging mid to high 40s I would chalk it up to inflated epa estimates and winter weather but I just can't accept what I am getting now.
     
  15. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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  16. DianneWhitmire

    DianneWhitmire High PRIUStess

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    If you're only getting 34 mpg, you may be driving it like you stole it.

    It might be a wiser thing to do (rather than take a loss) to find someone with Prius experience nearby and get a few lessons in how to drive a hybrid to maximize mileage and enjoyment? Sometimes, that's all it takes.

    Di
     
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  17. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    I have to agree with Dianne on this one. When I got my car I drove it like the 4Runner, and the first tank SUCKED!!! about 37 or so...BAD!!! However, I did a little reading on HOW TO DRIVE the Prius, and soon found that depending on gas pedal position, you can do HI MPG or LOW MPG and still be going the same speed. I can duplicate this demo anytime I need to show someone, but I will NOT drive to NY.....

    Take some time, I know it's winter, that does not help the matter any, but watch the MPG gauge and play with pedal placement and you should soon see a correlation between speed/pedal depression/MPG.

    I have read posts where folks say you do not have to baby the car to get good MPG. Possibly true, but you do have to take the time to figure out how the system works for you, and what you have to do to achieve the desired results. Pushing the pedal to the floor constantly, jack rabbit starts, and hills will all contribute to bad MPG.

    You did mention that you have to go up a hill, yes that's a minus, on the highway, you should see at least 45+ as you cruise along. Try not to use cruise control, I find when I do, I take a hit. I usually drive 65/70. You also mentioned that when city street driving, you really take a hit. This is where you should be concentrating on your Pulse and Glide and Warp Stealth technique. When I do under 40 MPH city driving I have GREAT results, but then I took the time to practice the mentioned techniques, I quickly got the MPG up where it belongs.

    After 3 tanks of gas, consistant practice, and learning the tricks of the car I usually avg 47/48 MPG consistantly!! That's including the 4.5 miles of hill I have to drive up every night to go home. However, on the way down the hill, 99.9MPG the entire run.... it's a trade off!

    Do not be in such a hurry to dump the car, it's a great vehicle, it just has it's own set of quirks that until you figure it out, LOW MPG!!!
     
  18. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'll give you 15 grand, cash!:D
     
  19. egale

    egale New Member

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    I found a dealer willing to do much better!
     
  20. exbauer

    exbauer Active Member

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    If it is a Toyota extended warranty, you can cancel it and get your money back for that. Anybody, please correct me if I am wrong.
     
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