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When is an EV not EV?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Technical Discussion' started by dstahre, Dec 26, 2016.

  1. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    You might get a better indication from the ENERGY MONITOR - I sometimes thought the EV light was a bit slow to come on (or off) - I turned that screen off months ago.

    The displays would be just a summary of the data being generated. TOYOTA engineers (or publicity?) would have made a decision on what they thought their clients would most likely want. That data is then converted to a visible display - I'd not be surprised by some occasional blips.

    At one stage, I worked in budget control for my organisation, and my boss (a scientist) wanted weekly reports to him in graphical form - which was a totally foreign, and relatively useless medium for me, being used to reading spreadsheets etc. That worked fine, mostly, until we were in a meeting together - he'd have the graphs in front of him - a summary, I'd have spreadsheets in front of me - I had a big advantage, I had the RAW DATA I could drill down to - he was looking ONLY at a summary.

    Have you read the WIKIPEDIA article - it explains a lot:

    Hybrid Synergy Drive - Wikipedia
     
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  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Well, my first hand experience is with a gen2. It had the energy monitor showing the flow to and from the ICE, motor, and battery, but there was no EV anything. My car was even pre-EV button.

    Talking Toyota, EV Mode is a low speed mode of operation that keeps the ICE off. Toyota put it there mostly for shuffling the car between parking spaces, and the manual has a long list of times when it won't operate. Now, it could be used wisely to improve overall fuel consumption, but it id much easier to use it unwisely and reduce the car's fuel efficiency. I did install the hack for EV Mode on my 2005.

    IMHO, calling out ICE off, motor on operation on a hybrid without a plug can encourage that unwise use and actually hurt fuel efficiency. For the best fuel efficiency you want to avoid any energy going in or out of the battery. This means getting the car to glide(no energy to or from the wheels) when the engine is off, and anticipating stops so you can lose most of your speed to a glide before actually stopping. Save the battery for the computer so it can use it to minimize the fuel burned by the ICE.
     
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  3. alexgrigori

    alexgrigori Active Member

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    Thanks, I did not noticed EV indication on HSI screen because I do not use this screen. Instead I use Hybrid System Indicator on HUD and it does not have EV indication.
    On a general note there are two type of EV indication ("EV Mode" and "EV" mode):
    1. "EV Mode" indication - EV Mode icon next to driving mode icon
    2. "EV" (driving or propelling) indication - on HSI page.
    First is specific to EV Mode button and second is more generic one.
     
  4. dstahre

    dstahre Member

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    Under appropriate conditions the computer does EXACTLY that! It turns OFF the ICE and goes on battery power. The difference between that and Manual EV mode is that the computer selects it. Manual EV is when you want to force EV and the vehicle will only allow it under very limited conditions. ICE off on Battery power IS EV! (ELECTRIC VEHICLE) PERIOD!!!!
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    A basic series hybrid is just an ICE generator with an electric drivetrain; no battery and no plug. The car is driven completely by electric motors with electricity made from gasoline.
    Would you call such a car an EV?
    If not, why does delaying when that gasoline made electricity is used to propel the car change your definition?
     
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  6. alexgrigori

    alexgrigori Active Member

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    Nuclear sub has no battery and no plug but Diesel one does. So do we need a nuclear Prii?
     
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  7. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Not in PRIUS - where that is only one of the many drive modes. Mostly drive is by the ICE -> WHEELS, supplemented by the electric motors at times, at other times they are charging the battery only.

    Have a read - Hybrid Synergy Drive - Wikipedia - it explains the many possibilities.

    You thinking of this maybe?

    Ford Nucleon - Wikipedia ?
     
    #27 alanclarkeau, Jan 13, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2017
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  8. alexgrigori

    alexgrigori Active Member

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    No, I do not think Ford gonna do it... maybe Tesla ?
    :)
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Am aware. How HSD works is not relevant to my point though. The Prius gets all its energy from gasoline. Having a hybrid electric drive train does not change that. So reporting an EV use ratio is just useless at best and misleading to the verge of reducing efficiency at worse.
     
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  10. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    The Prius is not a series Hybrid as you described. The wheels are propelled by the MG2 motor, but can be supplemented by ICE directly at highway speeds, getting torque from both sources.

    Knowing how HSD works is relevant because you implied (above) that the Prius HSD is a series hybrid when it really is something else.
     
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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    And where in my post did I use the word Prius?
    "A basic series hybrid is just an ICE generator with an electric drivetrain; no battery and no plug. The car is driven completely by electric motors with electricity made from gasoline.
    Would you call such a car an EV?
    If not, why does delaying when that gasoline made electricity is used to propel the car change your definition?" - me

    I was discussing a hypothetical car. If an actual model was read into that, the issue wasn't with the post.
    I am discussing how hybrids that aren't plug ins are reporting the ratio EV usage. The issue is in the dash display, not the drive train. My point applies to all such hybrids regardless of make, model, or hybrid operation.
     
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  12. kithmo

    kithmo Couch Potato

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  13. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    Kamikaze cars!
     
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  14. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    You posted in the Gen 4 Prius forum, not "Other Hybrids" or "Fred's House". The on-topic discussion is the Gen 4 Prius.
    We had to assume that either you misunderstood HSD or you wandered into the wrong forum. Since we are still learning about these newer models, some of us assumed the former rather than the latter.
     
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  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    As I said, "I was discussing a hypothetical car. If an actual model was read into that, the issue wasn't with the post."
    All my posts in this thread relate to Toyota, and likely others, highlighting a operation statistic that can be misleading.

    If there is no plug, hybrids are gasoline powered cars. They make efficient use of that gasoline with the aid of electric motors and a battery, but they still get all their energy from gasoline, and will go no where without it.
     
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  16. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    Gentlemen, there is room for manoeuvre here on both sides because this IS a chat forum, so let's not become overly pedantic, please.

    Trollbait is right in what he maintains, but it is a bit skewed off topic in my opinion.
    ProdigyPlace is also correct and probably identified the interpretation of the greater majority.

    Personally, I can accept both arguments as equally valuable and respect both individuals highly, so I'll stfu now and move along quietly. Well, maybe not totally silent! (y):whistle:
     
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