Where are all the Prius Haters?

I think a lot of it has to do with the time the vehicle has been on the market. The Prius just hasn't been out that long, and the following tends to be... um... cultish.

That said, a year on with my Prius and I've got some remorse. Being completely honest, there's waaaaaaay too much plastic inside, and the fit and finish isn't the best. It handles like wet soap. And was the cost savings really worth omitting a proper instrument panel. And take the seats... please!

But it is a perfect commuter car. And I can throw a lot of mulch in the back and transport it back to my house. But it's not a car I'd go on a road trip with, even with the mileage rating. And it's not a car I'd owned if I lived closer to work.

 

Car and Driver -- Brock Yates

When I was 15-16 yrs old I thought Brock was the automotive info God.

Then I grew up.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer\";p=\"112334)</div>

Or have just settled on it and are biding their time time more compelling hybrids come out.

If it weren't for the fact that I drive 50-60 miles a day, I wouldn't have bought the Prius. I do like the fact that it's a kinda uber-economy car, but I don't like the fact that it's outfitted like an uber-economy car.

But I like what it's done, and I like the fact that it's helped move hybrids into the mainstream. When the Ford Fusion hybrid hits, I suspect a lot of Prius drivers are going to give it a look.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer\";p=\"112334)</div>

I agree completely. I mean, who (besides me?) would waste their time in a web community if they weren't fanatical about the car.
My use for forums like this is that the fanatics usually bring out all the issues so I know what to watch for.
I do, however, get tired of the disrespect given to other cars, all SUVs suck,etc. The Prius can't be all things so folks do have a use for other vehicles.
As I've said before, I'm glad we have it, but I'm equally glad it isn't my car.

 

Honestly, that has not been my impression at all, but perhaps since I don't read every thread? I have seen Johnnycat give his less than glowing description of the interior several times now and not been personally attacked. Rather people tend to disagree by stating their own opinion, which in the end, a person's opinion on the interior comes down to. It may be though that I have just not read those threads in the last 9 months.

My suspicion is that Tony is spot on in that there are so few complainers (about the Prius) that those who have many complaints just don't stay.

I would suspect that is is Although I have been on this board for more

 

Ok, so in the other corner, we have Patrick Bedard's C&D Editorial about the Prius from April 2004, maybe we could have a Steel Cage Death Match between them

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...4&page_number=1

For those that don't remember, Bedard's essay was entitled "Finally, a car that really knows how to use it's engine."

Some quotes:

"Given what we've known forever about IC engines, hybrids are just common sense."

'The Toyota Prius will change the way we think about cars and engines."

 

Well take it from a Square head like me.., no matter what the Prius specifically, not other hybrids per say., is the BEST DEAL money wise as well as other benefits. Edmunds should be ashamed publishing crap like that. An owner of a 2002 Explorer, driving 15-23000 miles a year, can just trade, either the payments are the same, and that is on 4 years total remaining (ie the 2002 was financed with 6 yrs, the Prius only 4 yrs - less the trade value of the explorer), for the same amount payment wise assuming a conservative $100 gas savings each month. Now 3 yrs later what is the book value of the 2002 explorer vs 2005 Prius..ie in 2008 ? The difference between that is $10,000! and in actuality gas savings is running about $150/month, so at 36 months throw in another $1800. Financially, this is a totally sound decision, and mechanically I have no quibles with this car either. I do agree you have to watch the people that work on the car, and also the dealer service in some cases. A smart consumer will be treated smartly, and a less then smart consumer will be treated "less then smart". I have talked 2 other persons into looking at this car, waiting for them to buy it. I suggest we start a "notch" your Prius car club (and that is not my original idea, someone else suggested this on another forum here), that is when we successfully get someone to buy one, we put a little sticker or emblem of some type on the car somewhere. Then we can post pics and have a contest!! I like that.. and the ground is fertile here in S.E. Texas .. lots of misconceptions.

 

Yes.

 

Kirkbinster:

YES...the car is great. Toyota has done a fine job, first they designed a very wind resistant outer body, they carefully sized the engine and motor system and car weight. They made the car bigger but not too big., so as to be in between a compact and sub-compact but yet larger in interior room then a compact. The price is great, Toyota it is said at first lost money on the car, and sold it very cheap. Now as production is ramped up, still the car is a GREAT DEAL money wise. Look at it this way, the Insight is too small and costs near 20K with all the trimings Toyota gives you, The Civic is still small, uninspiring design, just a gas engine car with some batteries, poorer performing then the Prius, and more expensive, IF you get the same trimings Toyota throws in the Prius.

Now let's talk about the Accord's, Camry's., the new SUV's like the Highlander, the Ford Escape, and of course the Lexus and likes (luxury models:

ALL of them cost substantially more then the Prius, in most cases $7-10,000. The luxury ones, well let's not even touch that subject. Just think, a FULLY LOADED Prius with leather, NAV and all the goodies, runs close to $30,000, a regular deal with no Nav or leather is anywhere from about $23,000 to $25,000. I just looked at a Toyota Highlander and the price w/o the Nav and leather was $35,000.

BUT never mind the money, those bigger SUV's or the Camry's and Accord's (the 6 cylinders..) with hybrid boosting (Nissan is going that way with a TOYOTA furnished system too)., only boost the mileage about 10-15%., of that 25-35 range...figure it out, you're lucky if you come even near to 40 MPG., and that's an EPA estimate, so in real life you'll be lucky to get 35 MPG.

Well the Prius starts at 50 mpg, and if you just drive it in most cases you EASILY get 40-45 MPG, and with a little effort on your part you can do better then 50 mpg. The real deal here is the money savings in the GAS MILEAGE.

The other hybrids do not offer substantial enough savings to justify their EXTRA COSTS, in most cases where as the Prius DOES.

 

Brock Yates, once again, proclaims his "love" of hybrids in his September 2005 article in Car and Driver, Hybrid Issues, and a Rising Star at Indy

He informs us about:
1) The cost of the car relative operating a conventional car;
2) Cost of buying new batteries after they wear out;
3) The stalling issue;
4) Where the used batteries will be disposed;
5) EMT and fire crews refusing to rescue victims trapped in hybrids - fearing electrocution or fatal acid burns.

If you listen to him - I guess we all made a huge mistake!

 

Well, the battery issues that he raised ARE worth considering, don't you wonder where all of these several hundred million NiMH cells will end up? I note that rescue training is being addressed as far back as the Insight introduction.

Cost of operation IS important; I am not a rabid enviroNAZI, so the 'green' benefits mean little to me. <insert scathing condemnations here> But paying a premium JUST to obtain a few mpg makes little sense.

If YOU are the hapless soul whose precious Prius stalls at 65mph in front of 18-wheelers hell-bent for leather, that may also be of concern.

I bought my Prius because it is relatively comfortable, a hatchback, fuel efficient, and somewhat affordable.

 

With the battery issue, somebody knowledgable please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that the NiMH batteries are 100% recyclable and that Toyota has a program in place to buy up used up batteries once the time comes. And even if not, the 90 lbs. of battery I believe may cause less of an environmental impact than the tons of emissions that the car does not produce by virtue of having a hybrid drive.

The issue about the car stalling, again correct me if I'm wrong, is limited to cars within a certain VIN range that have not had their software updated. Yes, I'm sure it royally sucks if it happens to you, but this issue is one that is blown out of proportion in terms of the frequency with which it happens, the severity and frequency of the problem in comparison to problems with other cars that do not get over-reported like this issue, and in terms of Toyota's response to the problem.

Sure, the Prius is not a perfect car and certainly is not everything to everybody, but it still galls me when a writer for a supposedly reputable magazine does such a hatchet job on hybrid cars using rumors, hearsay, half-truths and all out lies.

 

I continue to play:

How much towards a new set of batteries is Toyota going to allow me? Is it one-to-one? I doubt that it will even be a few hundred...so the cost of batteries over the costs of conventional transport IS of concern.

Cost of operating this car will be unknown to me for some time; my 2004 HCH cost me a bunch in terms of replacing brake rotors. Replaced twice in 39000 miles versus my previous 2001 Venture brakes being replaced once in 87000 miles; rotors only needed surfacing. Same roads and driving style...so, am I to assume that this hybrid's brakes are better?

Are you certain that Toyota will not CHARGE you a fee for disposing of them? (like the brake pad/oil disposal/ tire disposal fees we now pay?)

What IS Toyota's response to the stalling problem? Frankly, until I joined this list, I never heard of the stalling problem...but it would have given me cause to question before buying.

Finally, I did not read the Yates article; is it really a hatchet job or is that just someone's 'take' on the issue? Sometimes asking the question is JUST asking the question.

No car is perfect. We read articles and make decisions based upon other's comments here and also in industry sources.

 

www.CNET.com now has an automobile section. Check out this fellows 'read' on the Prius:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4864-10867_7-31352...295&ctype=msgid

Note: He drives an Echo and equates the Echo to a Prius without the HSD

 

That's not really a fair comparison. The Prius has more room, and a few more luxury features, assuming you have the nav package.

But they both have the same econobox interior/fit'n'finish, so it's not that far off. If you were driving a base Prius, and didn't have a need for the extra hatchback space, then yeah... it is pretty comprable to an Echo. (Note: I'm not saying it's comprable engine tech wise. I'm just speaking on the merits of the car)

 

Well..let's see:

The stall issue is long dead and solved. 14 cases out of 80,000 plus models. The problem was a software issue, and resolved, and limited only to a certain numbers of 2004 models.

The batteries: Toyota warranties them for I believe is 8 yrs and/or 100,000 miles, I have read that some have gotten 170,000 miles out of them. Just now you have turn over from the 1st generation starting. Toyota does re-cycle the batteries, current cost is still on the high side $7,000 but prices coming down fast as demand comes on, batteries are made by Panasonic, and it is just a matter of time before some company will find it profitable to make batteries for all these Hybrids, hence competition hence lower prices.

Brakes - usually related to driver habit, I do not think or have heard that the specific Toyota Brakes or materials are of lesser quality then any other car's brakes. There is also no indication of design error, ie premature failures due to mistake in design anywhere on these boards.

The Echo is a totally different car, and very small and you can certainly feel it. The wheel base is similar, not the same, the interior room is very small in the echo, and the car is lighter.

Toyota does not charge to dispose the battery, and is very good with warranty coverage. There has been no battery issues, as these become more mainstream, the perceived problems will only get BETTER, not worse.

Yes I believe a hatchet job occured in that article. It is universally understood already by all emergency personel NOT TO CUT orange wrapped wires. That is easy enough, and most emergency functions other than this are no different then other vehicles. FEW very FEW emergency personel would refuse to help or remove a victim, simply because after looking they determined he or she was in a Hybrid type vehicle. All of these folks are trained and very safety conscious, and so is the car in relations to its Hybrid side. All cars automatically SHUT OFF (even the gas cars have collision sensors, that deploy airbags and fuel shut offs) the hybrid car is no different, upon any airbag deployment and/or severe crash or a roll over the car's computer and safety system shut off the electric motors, fuel to the engine, and starting controls. All an emergency crew has to remember is to not cut orange wrapped wires, and these are clearly marked and ROUTED away from dangerous areas and passengers.

 

Well..let's see:

The stall issue is long dead and solved. 14 cases out of 80,000 plus models. The problem was a software issue, and resolved, and limited only to a certain numbers of 2004 models.

The batteries: Toyota warranties them for I believe is 8 yrs and/or 100,000 miles, I have read that some have gotten 170,000 miles out of them. Just now you have turn over from the 1st generation starting. Toyota does re-cycle the batteries, current cost is still on the high side $7,000 but prices coming down fast as demand comes on, batteries are made by Panasonic, and it is just a matter of time before some company will find it profitable to make batteries for all these Hybrids, hence competition hence lower prices.

Brakes - usually related to driver habit, I do not think or have heard that the specific Toyota Brakes or materials are of lesser quality then any other car's brakes. There is also no indication of design error, ie premature failures due to mistake in design anywhere on these boards.

The Echo is a totally different car, and very small and you can certainly feel it. The wheel base is similar, not the same, the interior room is very small in the echo, and the car is lighter.

Toyota does not charge to dispose the battery, and is very good with warranty coverage. There has been no battery issues, as these become more mainstream, the perceived problems will only get BETTER, not worse.

Yes I believe a hatchet job occured in that article. It is universally understood already by all emergency personel NOT TO CUT orange wrapped wires. That is easy enough, and most emergency functions other than this are no different then other vehicles. FEW very FEW emergency personel would refuse to help or remove a victim, simply because after looking they determined he or she was in a Hybrid type vehicle. All of these folks are trained and very safety conscious, and so is the car in relations to its Hybrid side. All cars automatically SHUT OFF (even the gas cars have collision sensors, that deploy airbags and fuel shut offs) the hybrid car is no different, upon any airbag deployment and/or severe crash or a roll over the car's computer and safety system shut off the electric motors, fuel to the engine, and starting controls. All an emergency crew has to remember is to not cut orange wrapped wires, and these are clearly marked and ROUTED away from dangerous areas and passengers.

 

Well..let's see:

The stall issue is long dead and solved. 14 cases out of 80,000 plus models. The problem was a software issue, and resolved, and limited only to a certain numbers of 2004 models.

The batteries: Toyota warranties them for I believe is 8 yrs and/or 100,000 miles, I have read that some have gotten 170,000 miles out of them. Just now you have turn over from the 1st generation starting. Toyota does re-cycle the batteries, current cost is still on the high side $7,000 but prices coming down fast as demand comes on, batteries are made by Panasonic, and it is just a matter of time before some company will find it profitable to make batteries for all these Hybrids, hence competition hence lower prices.

Brakes - usually related to driver habit, I do not think or have heard that the specific Toyota Brakes or materials are of lesser quality then any other car's brakes. There is also no indication of design error, ie premature failures due to mistake in design anywhere on these boards.

The Echo is a totally different car, and very small and you can certainly feel it. The wheel base is similar, not the same, the interior room is very small in the echo, and the car is lighter.

Toyota does not charge to dispose the battery, and is very good with warranty coverage. There has been no battery issues, as these become more mainstream, the perceived problems will only get BETTER, not worse.

Yes I believe a hatchet job occured in that article. It is universally understood already by all emergency personel NOT TO CUT orange wrapped wires. That is easy enough, and most emergency functions other than this are no different then other vehicles. FEW very FEW emergency personel would refuse to help or remove a victim, simply because after looking they determined he or she was in a Hybrid type vehicle. All of these folks are trained and very safety conscious, and so is the car in relations to its Hybrid side. All cars automatically SHUT OFF (even the gas cars have collision sensors, that deploy airbags and fuel shut offs) the hybrid car is no different, upon any airbag deployment and/or severe crash or a roll over the car's computer and safety system shut off the electric motors, fuel to the engine, and starting controls. All an emergency crew has to remember is to not cut orange wrapped wires, and these are clearly marked and ROUTED away from dangerous areas and passengers.