Featured Where are EVs taking off?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Marine Ray, May 14, 2019.

  1. Marine Ray

    Marine Ray Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    298
    218
    0
    Location:
    Sparks, NV
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Plug-in Advanced
    #1 Marine Ray, May 14, 2019
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
  2. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2016
    4,647
    5,466
    0
    Location:
    near Brisbane, Australia
    Vehicle:
    2016 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    US, EU, China seem to be the biggest - and some other pockets around the world.

    67% of the developing world still goes without household electricity. An EV would be a dream (or nightmare).
     
    ewxlt66 likes this.
  3. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    1,625
    941
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Ironically Japan is way-low on that list, because of their insistence upon developing FCEVs over BEVs.
     
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,295
    4,122
    52
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    That would be an anecdotal observation leading you to decision based upon incomplete information.

    Most households in Japan only have 100-volt lines available. Imagine how inconvenient it would be to have that as your only means of recharging an EV. It would take forever.

    That shortcoming is why Prime over there has CHAdeMO as an option.
     
    Prashanta and alanclarkeau like this.
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    78,056
    32,959
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    and yet sells poorly
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    78,056
    32,959
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    georgia, who would have thunk. massachusetts is an embarrassment.:oops:
     
  7. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,295
    4,122
    52
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    Your habit of not quoting posts makes it very difficult to have constructive discussion.

    I assume you're referring to sales in Japan, but have no clue how you could possibly draw that conclusion without model or supply data.
     
    Prashanta likes this.
  8. jmarkd7

    jmarkd7 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2016
    72
    76
    0
    Location:
    Virginia
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    Interesting that Virginia is fast-growing, as there are zero state tax incentives and no HOV incentives for anyone who hasn't hung on to a grandfathered 2000s-era "Clean Special Fuel" license plate.
     
    wjtracy likes this.
  9. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    10,514
    3,116
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Yes I would say Virginia growth is suspect. Wishful thinking but we are going blue maybe the Dems will add incentives.

    But it shows the impact of incentives. When it was hybrid sales in 2006, and Virginia was the first to invent free HOV for hybrids, we were immediately in the top 5 states of hybrid sales. Now look where we are. And some smaller portion of the plug-in growth in Va. are the grandfathered folks that still get the free HOV.
     
    #9 wjtracy, May 15, 2019
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,295
    4,122
    52
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    There was skewed demand in the past for California & Colorado due to state incentives too.
     
  11. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    1,979
    1,258
    0
    Location:
    Silicon Valley
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    That is only half the story. And the 100 volt standard in Japan is only 10-20% lower than the 110-120v in the US, so it isn't really that bad. The other half of the story is how many amps the typical household service has. This is because watts is what matters (watts = volts * amps). Older homes in the US typically have only 100 amps, but newer ones typically have 200 amps.

    Japan has plenty of industrial equipment that requires heavy electrical usage so they could install plenty of higher voltage public chargers if they so desired in commercial locations.

    If the common household voltage were the limiting factor then the UK, Europe and all those countries would be far ahead of the lowly US in EV sales since they have double our voltage.

    Mike
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    13,132
    5,450
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Those homes are low amperage in Japan. A Prime takes twice as long to charge at such residents as it does in the US, and Level 2 isn't an option at them.
    But Japan does have a large public charger network, and the Prime has CHAdeMO standard, with a PV roof option there.
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    11,295
    4,122
    52
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    It's 100 volts verses 240 volts, big difference. You are right about the amps, but those values are all over the place. Old homes here have 75-amp capacity. New ones here vary between 150 and 200.

    Even bigger of a problem is simply how to get the electricity from the service-panel to the car. Even new builds still favor the short path to the house. That means some new houses need a major effort to cross the house to get the needed new line to the garage. There's also the problem of property regulations. A local provider here requires the line to come from the house, so the line crosses the yard twice for those with a garage in the ally.
     
  14. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2008
    4,796
    2,797
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2018 Tesla Model 3
    Model:
    N/A
    Or people can simply plug into a 110V outlet.
    The only funny/odd requirements I am aware of is for special EV electric rates.

    In the USA, basic charging is not that high of a hurdle. Japan is a much more difficult situation.
     
  15. mr88cet

    mr88cet Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2008
    1,625
    941
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    So, yes, that’s an interesting point about only having 100V outlets. The unrealism of home BEV charging might further explain why they’re going for FCEVs over BEVs, but either way, it’s clear that Japan is concentrating upon FCEVs over BEVs.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    78,056
    32,959
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    i wonder how many bevs and how many fcevs are on the road in japan
     
  17. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2010
    5,630
    3,200
    0
    Location:
    Rocky Mountains
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Model:
    Three
    I disagree completely on L1 vs L2 for a BEV. Most people don't drive far. And in Japan, that's even more true. Even a Leaf with it's limited range is not a bother for most people.

    I charge my Leaf on L1 exclusively when I am in town. I just plug it in outside to the side of the house. No it doesn't charge to 100% all the time, but it still has no problem going further than the average American daily driving with a limited charge and definitely for Japan. In Japan 29% of the population drives less than 3000 miles a YEAR (8 miles a day). 27% do between 3000mi-5000mi a year (14mi/day). 18% between 5000mi-7000mi (19mi/day). 9% between 7000mi-9000mi (24mi/day).

    Less than 8% of the population drive what the average American drives. A 40mi range Leaf works for 92%+ of the population of Japan. Charging at 3mi/hr overnight isn't a problem when you only need 4 hours of charging to fully recharge your BEV.

    The real reason BEVs haven't taken off in Japan is because public transport works very well unlike in the US. When in Japan you can get pretty much anywhere you want in the cities all the way out to the boonies by bus or train and that's what most people do.

    You know what the job is of this dude standing here?

    shutterstock_172710254-copy.png

    Safety attendant sure. But really, he's a Oshiya. Literally a "Pusher".

    His job is to get these people:

    Kaihin-Makuhari_Station_001-900x500.jpg

    onto the train. If you aren't being compressed in all directions, you aren't on a Japanese train.

    D0yCY7QVsAEz7cU.jpg

    Americans would never tolerate this, let alone be able to achieve the same human/sqft density that Japan can. BEV adoption along with all vehicles is pretty low.
     
    wjtracy likes this.
  18. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    10,514
    3,116
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
  19. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    12,569
    3,325
    0
    Location:
    Austin, TX, USA
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Europe Overtakes Japan In Number Of CHAdeMO Chargers
    7400 chademo chargers in japan about a year ago. That seems like good infrastructure as long as you don't need to charge faster than 50 KW (standard now includes much faster, but almost all chargers are slower).

    By The Numbers | California Fuel Cell Partnership
    Now 100 hydrogen stations but only 3044 fcv (mainly mirai and clarity but includes busses too) as of march.

    Its not infrastructure for charging. Its the incentives and car choices.

    I have a friend in tokyo, and the reason he doesn't have a ev is he can't buy a tesla model 3 yet. ;-)
     
    mr88cet and bwilson4web like this.
  20. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2011
    6,084
    2,556
    1
    Location:
    NJ
    Vehicle:
    2014 Chevy Volt
    Try that on a NY subway.
     
Loading...