Where are Rev. Sharpton & Rev. Jackson?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ May 18 2007, 02:10 PM) [snapback]445036[/snapback]</div>

If I'm truthful and know what I'm talking about and that makes me a racist I plead guilty. However, unlike all the wimps who fall all over themselves apologizing after being called a racist I say NO, I will NOT apologize for telling the truth. If the shoe fits.....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ May 18 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]445050[/snapback]</div>

Although I am an expert with firearms I was never a hunter. I only would kill an animal if I had to eat and there was no food. I am an animal lover, but humans- they're a whole other matter. Thanks for the beer offer.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ May 18 2007, 11:07 AM) [snapback]445033[/snapback]</div>

And WHY are the numbers the way they are? What could lead these people (inmates) to do what they do? Are the majority of them from well to do and caring family structures?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ May 18 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]445033[/snapback]</div>

If by "quite accurate" you mean "pulled out of your butt", you're right.

Meanwhile, here on Earth, the numbers are quite different.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bigmahma @ May 18 2007, 02:21 PM) [snapback]445050[/snapback]</div>

Be sure to take a camcorder along and post the video ("Deliverance II")

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ May 18 2007, 01:07 PM) [snapback]445033[/snapback]</div>

None this supports yours and Bigma's thesis that there's some huge surge of black crimes against whites. Statistics about murders specifically note that it's mostly done by members of the same race against their own.

From the DOJ Criminal Victimization report, 2005:

Though the rate and level of homicide change from year to
year, the relationship between victim characteristics and
homicide tends to remain the same. For example, as in
previous years, in 2004 —
• Most murder victims were male (78%).
• When the race of the murder victim was known, about
half were white (49.8%), almost half were black (47.6%),
and about 2.6% were of another race.
• When information on the victim-offender relationship was
available, 77% of the offenders were known to the victim,
while 23% were a stranger to the victim.
• Firearms were used in the majority of murders (70%).
• Offenders were most often male (90%) and age 18 or
older (92%).
• Homicide is generally intraracial.
• Arguments were the most often cited circumstance
leading to murder (44%).
• Homicides occurred in connection with another felony
(such as rape, robbery, or arson) in 23% of incidents.

Other DOJ sources ( http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm ) certainly affirm a higher perp rate among blacks

The prevalence of imprisonment in 2001 was higher for
-- black males (16.6%) and Hispanic males (7.7%) than for white males (2.6%)
-- black females (1.7%) and Hispanic females (0.7%) than white females (0.3%)
Based on current rates of first incarceration, an estimated 32% of black males will enter State or Federal prison during their lifetime, compared to 17% of Hispanic males and 5.9% of white males.

And about 60% of the prison population is made up of racial/ethnic minorities

If you look at Table 4, page 6 of the DOJ Criminal Victimization report, 2005 you can see the vicitimization rates by race (20 per 1000 for whites; 27 per 1000 for blacks).

So what does all this tell us? That poor people who live in run-down neighborhoods with gangs are more likely to commit/be victims of crime? That they will mostly prey on their own, and sometimes (robbery especially) on strangers/members of other groups?

How is this story not reported? Where is the conspiracy of the media? Dear God, turn on any episodic cop show, it's the plot they use 5 times a week.

Dude, you're totally unaware of the bubble of white privilege you live in.

 

Facts and a bit of sociology tend to screw up personal faith-based views that are limited to ones specific region.

Again, poverty is a main root to a problem. Are we seeing a trend here? Terrorism, health care, crime, environmental destruction, inequity, governmental collapse, etc.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ May 18 2007, 11:07 AM) [snapback]445033[/snapback]</div>

Working in a prison you only see the people who get sent to prison. Rich folks who commit the same crimes get off scot-free. They pay a good lawyer to find them a loophole, or prove that the prosecutor was incompetent in his argument. It's the poor folks who go to prison because they get stuck with the over-worked public defenders who don't have time to prepare a proper case.

America does not send people to prison for commiting crimes. America sends people to prison for being poor. And since America remains a profoundly racist society (as Bigmahma and Walker so shamefully demonstrate) people of color are disproportionately poor, and therfore disproportionately imprisoned. I've seen prison from the other side of the bars, and I can say that the most anti-social people inside a prison are the guards. Those guys are sick.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ May 18 2007, 03:36 PM) [snapback]445113[/snapback]</div>

Let's not split hairs. 1) I had no caring family- No parents. 2) You know very well that each person is responsible for his/her actions & behavior. 3) I have no desire to support violent criminals. I would much rather see them paying taxes & social security instead of being a liability/burden to society. 4) I could have used that old excuse you're referencing about a caring family, but I decided at an early age that I was going to be a good citizen and do the right things in life so I would not be locked up in a cage like an animal. 5) You're not being realistic if you give a violent person a "pass" based on their upbringing.

In max. prison many inmates spend 23 hrs./day locked in a small cement cell. Their meals are passed through a small opening in the cell door. The window is not transparent for security reasons. They are taken outside for 1 hour a day to another larger cement pen for exercise. Most of the men in the prison I worked at had 300-500+ years of time and will never get out. Most of them were locked down because they caused major trouble at the medium and minimum security prisons. They also attacked C.O.s and killed other cons.

Would you like to have them for neighbors? You have no idea how prison mentality works unless you've been there and seen what goes on. These are not nice individuals. They would kill anyone if it would benefit them and have zero remorse.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ May 18 2007, 03:47 PM) [snapback]445132[/snapback]</div>

If that's the best you can come up with we're done.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ May 18 2007, 04:23 PM) [snapback]445166[/snapback]</div>

No, I am not a well off yuppie like most of the people on this forum. I came from nothing and I still don't haveit easy. If you're talking about white privilege you've got the wrong guy. I grew up next to a welfare project and knew many guys from there. The smart ones figured out that the way out of poverty was not being a gang member or a criminal. Every person is fully responsible for his/her actions. We're done.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ May 18 2007, 04:38 PM) [snapback]445176[/snapback]</div>

I grew up with little money. I've never committed a violent act against anybody in my life. All those things you mentioned are the result of the elites & big bus. There are some cultures that don't think like we do. They have no regard for life or laws. They are self-serving and dangerous. Some people believe it's an inherited trait. If a person can't understand or has a total disregard for the basic laws of society what would you do with that person?

I never had a problem with race. I see blacks every day and every one of them respect me because I treat them like individuals, not as black people. They also know I'm a fair person who only gets upset when I am disrespected. I work in an enviornment that is 75% black and I have never had a problem with race.

I would like to see the day when humans stop trying to kill each other. I hate wars and death. For some reason the proples of the earth just can't get the hang of the idea of leaving everybody else the hell alone. Look at the US. We have been meddling in other people's business for way too long. People are dying every day so the elites & big bus. can make more money.

I really am sick of all the trouble race issues are causing for everyone including me. All this fighting is unhealthy for everyone. It needs to stop. I have seen the horror of death too many times. I left law enforcement to get away from all that negative stuff cops deal with. Working in a max. security prison was a very depressing exp. I put in 1 year per my agreement with the police academy & the prison so I would not have to pay back the tuition. It was a lousy, depressing year and I'm glad I'm not there anymore.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ May 18 2007, 10:46 PM) [snapback]445556[/snapback]</div>

I think you missunderstood my comment or I wrote it poorly. I am not making excusses for anyone nor did I say I want prisoners given a "pass". I was stating that part of the reason we have so many criminals is due to poverty. There are obviously numerous other contributing factors like lack of accountability, societal pressures, environmental chemical factors, etc. There is also the simple fact some people are just screwed up. I know a bunch of C.O.s (mostly San Quintin) in my car club and customers at my old job. In fact my mom boyfriend is an ex-prison inmate and is disgusted with all the "colorful" tatoos he had to get while serving his time. I've only been on on tour of the facilities but it is enough to get an idea and everyone watches the specials on National Geo channel. The point is I'm looking for the roots to problems we are facing, I'm not making excuses for them and saying we should "give em a break". I say lets try to alleviate some of the roots and see if the problem gets better. I also understand we can't fix everything, but we can try to do better instead of just bitching.

I'm glad you took the higher road in life my friend. It is a difficult path for some.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ May 18 2007, 11:14 PM) [snapback]445564[/snapback]</div>

The poverty issue is very prevalent in developing nations which is why it is so easy to obtain willing warriors (RUF, al qaeda or whatever) for whatever cause gives them the most hope. Humans are very similar in their desires so it is not hard to see how closely someone from 98th and International (Oakland) could compare to someone from Freetown (Sierra Leone). I grew up very poor as well and not once did I even think about commiting a violent crime for any reason. Now that doesn't mean that everyone thinks or feels like we do. Some people have a harder time dealing with life. We have nothing to lose by trying to work on the equity issues in our country and a lot to gain if we succeed. We do agree that we have to do something about the fat cats at the top to facilitate this idea. I don't think the burden should fall squarely on the poor or hard working middle class. That is a whole nother can O' worms though. lol

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 19 2007, 12:21 AM) [snapback]445522[/snapback]</div>

Daniel, I'm surprised at your response. I'm not committing any violent murders or stirring up tons of trouble like Sharpton. It is true in many cases that wealthy people buy their way out of any trouble they get into. But, to say being poor and black is the reason they murder other people doesn't cut it with me. It'a a bulls**t excuse and I'm not buying into it. Yes, some jail/prison guards are real dic*s and are worse than the cons. You spent time in jail and you said everyone should exp. that. I wouldn't ever want to be locked up in a cage.

You are usually a reasonable man. Wouldn't you agree that each individual is fully resposible for his/her actions? Do you think we need Sharpton stirring the races up on a weekly basis? He's just a trouble maker who is the opposite of David Duke. David is very self-serving also. What they both share is name recognition and reputation.

We can debate this forever and as long as people like Sharpton & Duke get media attention nothing will change. We are all pawns in a much bigger "game" the elites are running on us. All the attention is diverted away from the bigger picture by having the races fight amongst themselves. The elites win again.

 

"Sigh". It's 5:42 in the morning. I did not want to take the time to respond, but here goes.

If we could just let race go. Stop seeing it. Just see people. This country would be so much better off.

But Al and Jesse will not let that happen. Everytime something comes up like Imus (I'd never heard of him before his comment), Al will start the machine and donations will start pouring in. Al is protecting us. We need to support him.

The victim mentality is killing America. Black people. Victims. Indian people. Victims. You name it (except for whites). Victims. Why so many victims? Because there is money in it. But not earned money. Oh no. Why we can't expect victims to work for money, even though a great work ethic helped make this country strong. Oh. Correction. Poor whites can be victims if they are lumped with some non-white poor people.

Let's look at some people who chose not to be victims. Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice (she was extremely poor, but somehow through what must have been a herculean effort, she chose not to do bad things and go to prison. How in the world did she do it ?!). How about the guy from the movie The Pursuit of Happyness? No, not Will Smith, the guy the movie was about. He had every excuse to just give up. Let's add my wife. The above mentioned movie made her cry because she went through some of the same things he did when she was a child.

There are many people who choose to do the right thing. But the trend seems to be to do what will benefit me even if it is obviously wrong.

" I love that guy! But not enough to buy his movie legitimately so he can be paid for what I enjoy. Give me the $5 bootleg."

The Duke case was all about race. No, it wasn't. The reporting and everything that followed was about race. If these guys wanted to see a black girl naked, so what. Maybe they did not see that very often. We all have a curiosity about things we don't have much exposure to.

The beginning of this topic is so far away. I think what he was trying to do is to point out the difference in the cases. This case is much more heinous. Even at the worst report at Duke, nothing was cut off. The worst thing at Duke was the gang rape accusation. Got that here in spades (leave that alone. It's just a figure of speech) and so much worse. But no big deal nationwide wall to wall reporting. It's an obvious bias.

I wish bad news was never reported. I wish the news was all duckies and birdies and sprinkles. But that would not sell newspapers and advertising.

Once again. If we could just stop seeing race, we'd all be so much better off.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ May 19 2007, 02:25 AM) [snapback]445565[/snapback]</div>

I agree with what you're saying, especially about the burden on the middle class. The way things are going it may not be around for long. It would be nice if the elites shared the wealth with others. They won't because their whole thing is making even more money. We need elected officials who will represent the working stiffs, and so far not any of them are thinking of that.

 

"The elites" as you call them do share the wealth. The vast majority of charity comes from the rich. If you are waiting for someone to give you some of the money that they earned, don't hold your breath. Focus on somehow giving people a hand up, not a hand out. Hand outs only weaken people. Some will take it and strive to rise, but a whole lot will just take it and enjoy it and never move beyond where they are.

This is America. If you want to be an "elite", then figure out a business you can excel in and start it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ May 18 2007, 10:46 PM) [snapback]445556[/snapback]</div>

I have been there. I would assert that guards have a very distorted view because they are prejudiced against the human beings in their charge, and regard them all as animals. I was always polite when speaking to guards, but they frequently insulted me for no reason. Like the vast majority of the U.S. prison population, I was there for a nonviolent crime (in my case, nonviolent civil disobedience) and yet the guards saw us all as murderers and rapists, and often spoke to us in foul language.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Walker1 @ May 18 2007, 11:29 PM) [snapback]445570[/snapback]</div>

As noted above, the vast majority of prison inmates in the U.S. have never committed a violent crime.

Murderers and rapists belong in prison. I have no sympathy for them. But the U.S. puts its petty murderers in prison, for being poor, while letting the really big mass murderers off scot free because it's legal to manufacture products you know will kill hundreds (e.g. Ford Pinto) or hundreds of thousands (e.g. tobacco). And the U.S. imprisons people (the majority of our prison population) for nonviolent or even victimless crimes. Prison has become an important industry in the U.S., with lobbyists pressing legislators for harsher laws so that this industry will have more business.

The criminals referenced in the OP belong in prison. But the OP sees that crime and shouts "BLACK!" while ignoring the white-collar legal crime that kills far more people and steals far more money.

I say: Let the non-violent and victimless criminals out (the latter should not be punished at all, and the former should be given creative punishment involving restitution rather than costly imprisonment) and put the white-collar killers in prison.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(roryjr @ May 19 2007, 03:06 AM) [snapback]445598[/snapback]</div>

I agree 100%!!! We would be so much better off if we could stop seeing race. Stop denying jobs and promotions to people based on their race. Stop letting criminals get off because they are white and rich. Stop ghettoizing kids into bad schools because of their race. Stop discriminating in housing. Stop claiming, as the racists do, that Black people are inherently criminal.

If we could start treating people equally, regardless of race, we would be taking a giant step towards making this countty a better place.

I was kind of scared when I went into prison, because I knew that as a White man I'd be in the minority. I was never in the kind of prison that Walker describes (where everyone is locked down 23 hours a day) but I was in a minimum-security prison, a medium-security prison, and a prison housing all security levels, where only the very highest-security inmates were isolated from the general population. So I lived with 99% of the inmates. And with only one exception* I was never harassed or threatened or treated badly by other inmates of any race. I was verbally abused, constantly, by the guards, however.

(* For some reason, the American Indians at Sandstone FCI were deeply anti-Semitic. Most of them gave me the cold shoulder, and one made nasty remarks to me. This was not the case at either of the other prisons I was in.)