Which to buy!?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by PriusForThePeople, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Also, in high demand times, Toyota has restricted attractive packages.

    As mentioned before, there were no 2008 package 3's shipping to the Western region last Summer.

    I would have jumped on a 3. I Didn't demand HID's, foglights, Nav.

    Who knew pack 3's would be listed again on Toyota's 'build your own' site in late September. Toyota never mentioned that in mid-August.

    Next time around, I would start car shopping about Thanksgiving and buy around December. Don't need a car, I'm set.
     
  2. PriusForThePeople

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    Hey... Just looked on "Build Your Prius" feature on Toyota.com and I noticed that the price of Package 5 (the one I'm most considering) has dropped $1,100 from $3,280 to $2,180. I'm hoping that that is a good sign for when I'm looking to purchase it.
     
  3. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Good eye. The bottom line sticker price has dropped from $27,574 to $26,474

    Just wanted to clue you in on one thing about the pack 5 - it has the HID headlights. I heard they were expensive to replace, so called Toyota.

    Dealer quote for parts/labor replacement, 1 side - $400 (not a typo)

    The HID capsules can be purchased elsewhere for less (was quoted $95 per side from non-toyota store).

    Do a search here. A number of owner's have had problems with the HID's. Also notice, Toyota has dumped them altogether for the 3rd Gen car.

    So, if you can live w/o factory navigation and fog lamps, pack3 does not have HID's.
     
  4. scooper428

    scooper428 New Member

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    Ok, I have trolled this thread for long enough without answering. I am a salesperson for Toyota. Cycle, as much as your advice is good, it misses one key feature that must be adhered to. Priuslover lives in Connecticut. Toyota does not offer Pkg 3 in the Central Atlantic region or anywhere else on the east coast for that matter. Pkg 3 is strictly for use in the west coast. So if Prius would like to fly to say Cali and buy his new Prius and drive it accross country and back to the east coast, he is more than welcome to do that.

    As far as the package pricing goes. Toyota is discounting a great number of their packages accross the board in the form of extra value packages. These packages are clearly marked on the original sticker along with what the savings are to you, the customer, for purchasing that package. So say a pkg 6 Prius has a base price of $30,800.00 underneath on the sticker will be a line that says Extra value savings $3250.00 Bringing the MSRP to somewhere in the $27,500 range. Pretty awesome for Toyota to do that for its customers don't you think? But also keep in mind during negotiations of the price of the vehicle that Toyota has taken away a lot of the Profit margin to the dealers by doing that. There isn't nearly as much room in them as their used to be. Difference between MSRP and Invoice is approximately $1700.00 or roughly 6.2% Not really a huge amount to play with anymore.
     
  5. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator
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    Profit - isn't the fair target 5%?
     
  6. scooper428

    scooper428 New Member

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    I don't know what the "fair" target is HTML. I do know however that if we had margins in this business like they have in most others, you would be paying over a hundred grand for a car. But really, I am not here to debate pricing with anyone here. I am just stating some facts for you to give you a little insight.

    I know that many of you here know how to buy cars and have done it for years. If you walked into my dealership and said that you would buy the car with a 5% profit margin, I would probably hug you and say right this way.
     
  7. JSH

    JSH Senior Member

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    A Toyota dealership can sell you a car at invoice and still make a profit due to holdback. A holdback is a percentage of MSRP that the dealer is paid on a quarterly basis. For Toyota this is 2% of base MSRP (MSRP without any options).

    Now your aren't going to find a dealer or salesman that is going to negotiate away the holdback. However is it a good indication of whether a salesman is being honest with you. If a salesman says he will sell you a car for $100 over invoice and that the dealership is only making $100 he is lying to you. (My experience most salesman either don't know what they are talking about or are deliberately lying to buyers).

    As to what is fair? Who knows. Dealerships have no one to blame but themselves for turning the car buying experience into a adversarial process. There are so many dealer and OEM tricks like holdbacks that are intentionally designed to confuse the buyer and distort the true cost of a car that any buyer should be suspicious. Buying a car can't be compared to buying other retail items because a normal retail purchase isn't a protracted negotiation.
     
  8. scooper428

    scooper428 New Member

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    You are correct in stating holdback and honestly I don't know the percentages for what they actually are for Toyota, I am not a manager. I am however a person that sells for this dealer. Most salespeople you run accross are inexperienced and have no clue what holdback is. Why? Becasue a vast majority of them don't get paid for it. Take me for example, If I sell you a vehicle for $500.00 below dealer invoice, my commission on that sale is $50.00 So if you have a professional salesperson that has put in the time and effort to learn his product and be knowledgable and helpful, do you think that his time is worth say $12/hr. That is essentially what he is making for selling that vehicle to you at that price. Absolutely the dealer makes money off the car, you get a great deal, and your salesman gets to figure out how to feed his kids. That is the reality of the car business.
     
  9. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator
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    Salesman generally doesn't "see" holdback and isn't always privy to that information. Unless they've been at it for a while, or the management chain is forthcoming, they probably won't see it.

    IIRC, some of the commission models are based on profit, no?
     
  10. scooper428

    scooper428 New Member

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    See post above HTML. I have pretty much laid it out there as to the ins and outs of it. Honeslty, I would truely like to get away from this topic since it is so off base from where this thread was supposed to be going.


    Prius, you have a couple options. Toyota Central Atlantic is currently running a $750.00 rebate on the 2009 Prius or you have the option of ordering a 2010. You will get more money off of the 2009 with a little negotiation but what you have to weigh is the amount of depreciation it will take becasue it is an outdated model. If that doesn't matter to you becasue you are getting a great car in both, my opinion is go for the 2009. If you want the latest and greatest, go for the 2010.
     
  11. HTMLSpinnr

    HTMLSpinnr Moderator
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    We appreciate what you've laid out - most aren't so forthcoming or honest. Most of this is spelled out at CarBuyingTips.com new car buying guide, avoiding dealer scams, new cars, used car buying , which is a site I've used and recommended for over 10 years to help buy 4 new cars. Most are much more inclined to do business w/ someone who doesn't hide the facts. Thanks.

    While the Prius Priory price will be set by TMS (and will surely be beneficial to both the dealer and the buyer), I fully expect to negotiate dealer options on my 2010 pre-order to a fair (~5%) cut above their cost, and will not pay MSRP. It's no secret how much profit can be built into many of these last-minute items. I can take my business just about anywhere (including online) for most options (iPod integration, window tint, extended warranty). I also don't plan on spending much time in the finance office as I intend to pay cash.

    This shows you're new here - threads rarely stay on topic, and it's on you who and what you choose to reply to. ;)

    To be on topic though - waiting for a 2010 vs. buying a 2009 now is a matter of needs vs. wants vs. what you can afford. If you need a car now, the choice is obvious due to discounts. If you can wait, and "want" new features or better fuel economy (at a $$$$ premium), get the 2010.

    If money is truly an issue, find a CPO (or used) 2007 or 2008 and let someone else take the depreciation. We're looking at a HiCam for the Mrs, and that's the route we'd take if we did.
     
  12. scooper428

    scooper428 New Member

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    Yeah less than 24 hours I would imagine makes me a baby :).

    As far as going and negotiating your fair 5%. If they won't get to where you want to be, contact me, I'll be happy to do it for you. Just realize that you'll have a couple day drive home with some nice scenery in between here and there.
    As a matter of fact, I posted on a different thread about this. My dealership is actually giving $500.00 off MSRP for 2010 orders. It's a nice way of thanking our customers for doing business with us.

    And from a standpoint of added dealer extras, things like tint and other aftermarket equipment I would recommend using an outsid source as that's all the dealer is doing. You are merely paying for convenience. When it comes to warranties though, I would definately stick with Toyota's warranty (which the price is negotiable). Just for the fact that if you do purchase a warranty from an outside company, any dealership has a right of refusal for that warranty company. With the Toyota warranty, you are guarenteed service at over 1500 dealerships accross the U.S. and Canada. For a little bit of added cost I would definately liek the piece of mind.

    Certified Preowned Toyotas are a great thing as well to keep costs down but again piece of mind high. It's by far bar none the best certified preowned program in the world.

    Ok I am done selling now :) Hopefully I have answered some of the questions people have had about the purchase process and given some decent information to help you come to a decission. Everyone have a great evening, time for me to go sell the worlds best automobile.