Who has got a Plug-in kit? Satisifed?

It seems a bit strange, hearing all these reports of Li-Ion costs being around $150 per kWh, that these plug in kits haven't gotten cheaper strictly due to the battery costs going down. Or are smaller suppliers still paying much much higher prices for the batteries?

 

Where can you buy 1kwh of Lithium for $150 in the aftermarket?

I sell 12v of 20ah A123 lithium cells for $150

Add on top of that the Charger, Battery management System, Converter, enclosure, software, tech support, cabling, marketing, shipping and more. No way should that go for only a couple thousand dollars.

 

Sure, you can't buy them that cheap as an individual or small company, those are the prices that big companies like Toyota and GM pay for them. But even so, battery prices have been dropping, right? Even for a DIYer, getting batteries straight from the supplier in China is cheaper today than it was in 2012, right?

All of the things you mentioned, lets say it costs $5000 to get a 4kWh kit in 2012. (Enginer's was $3500) Assuming the price of all those other things remained constant, the price of batteries should have dropped since then, allowing a lower price for the kit while still maintaining the same profit per sale. Rough example, maybe that 4kWh $5000 kit could be sold for $4000? $4500?

Or has something strange happened in the market, and battery prices have remained constant for everyone except big car companies? Not trying to argue or say that things are overpriced. Genuinely curious.

 

it's mostly that the enthusiasm has gone out of the aftermarket kit business. no profits to be had.

 

block heater?

 

Getting and using the engine block heater (even in summer) will help with that. Another thing to note is that during the initial warmup cycle, the car will prefer to use the engine only at a fixed RPM and will use the battery for all the other acceleration, unless you stomp on it. During this time it is possible to drain the battery quite a bit, causing the engine to recharge it as you drive once it pops out of the warmup cycle. I only start moving during this warmup cycle if I will be able to pull away very slowly or have a downhill right upon startup. Else, I turn the car on, let it do its warmup without even moving. This may not be the most fuel efficient way of starting, but I hate to see my battery drop a bunch while the engine is doing its warmup.

As for plug in kits, I only wanted one to help provide 20-40 miles of blended mode (Plug in kit keeps the battery in green zone, use engine and battery together until plug in kit is drained). As mentioned earlier in the thread, the Prius makes a terrible EV, so I wouldn't even bother switching to EV mode. I would only use a plug in kit to help keep the battery in the green so that it provides more assistance to the engine.

 

shortens warm up for quicker mpg's.

 

As bisco said, it shortens warmup time.

 

The problem was the suppliers and components did not work.
So if you use that as your guide, you can build the same unit and have the same failures.... for less money.
It has been proven that at that price level it ended up in failure.
In order to have a viable product you have to spend more money to have better quality.

Chuck,
A engine block heater would be a good idea and not cost you too much to have it installed.
Also the EV button might help as well.
If you really got tricky you could add a hybrid battery charger. Then you could drive in EV at the end of your day, and then charge the pack back up overnight.

 

That is seriously cool though if you live in Colorado. Design your own ideal PiP2.
Think I'd take a used v and convert to 4kWhrs and I am hoping for wireless charging.
hmm...my wife's got a cousin over there...

 

Well this thread is depressing.

I've been wanting to do a PHEV conversion on a Prius for years. I got my first 04 in 2010, and now have another for the wife (it has a new stock battery). I would not do it for EV mode as I have a 2012 Leaf as my daily driver. However achieving 200mpg remains a dream of mine. I have been in talks with Robb from Plug in Supply. The batteries he uses is what makes even the DIY kit so damn expensive. 15Ah Lifepo4 batteries from Headway at best are 23$ each ($35 from Headway), and the kit needs 156 of them ($3588 for 7kw). LifePo has obvious benefits (High Amp output, more resistant to shock/temp), but look at the Leaf/Tesla, Li ion batteries will not simply explode if you build and use the pack properly and monitor temp. The same 4kw could be half the cost with name brand 18650, with the same or more Amp output, and at a higher voltage so less in series, AND less weight in a smaller area. Win, win, win, win.

However, then Robb has developed his own BMS that talks to his own controller that manipulates the Car's ECU (I think). Those parts just to get the battery to work with the car is $1600, then you need a $600 charger. I feel this $1600 is mostly profit, as the design schematics don't look that complex, plus when I asked if I could interface a Raspberry Pi with it, he said it would be another $700. (Seriously... I could measure the amps/volts of the pack in different areas with a Pi and be just fine and for much less than $700). The BMS Robb provides only works with LifePo batteries, so you're kinda stuck. I told him I wanted to build a Li ion pack for cheaper and he told me I would catch my house on fire... Cheaper does not mean low quality batteries.

At the end of the day, I probably won't convert our newest 04 Prius unless Robb really wants my investment. We're much more likely to buy a used Tesla Model 3 in a few years.
I'm not worried about the investment in batteries, I know if the Prius doesn't work out, or I need to sell it, those batteries could be utilized for any number of projects (Li ion makes more sense). The other modifications though would be a wash, I doubt we would save that much in fuel cost, and unless I find the right buyer, it won't positively affect the value of the car.

 

someone just picked up a brand spanking new volt II for $23,500. after tax rebates. how could any aftermarket company beat that?

 

They can't, I'm sure Robb doesn't convert very many Prius anymore.
For those who are driven by DIY, 5k for a Prius and 3-4k for batteries is a smarter investment than 23k. Especially with 200+ mile range EVs literally two months away (Chevy Bolt), if you're going to buy a new car, buy that.

 

you won't see those for 23k for a long long time. and not everyone wants a pure ev, even with 200 miles.
now it may be that prime will be available for cheap money as well, after a few months of languishing on the lots. but you only get $4,500. tax credit.

 

What was the math of the $23k Volt? Was that with state incentives?

 

no, it was 34k msrp, 31k after gm/dealer discounts, 23.5k after 7500 fed credit. see fl prius drivers volt thread.

 

OK thought FL was $34K OTD you're talking before TTL gotcha