Who is plunking down $1k?

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by markabele, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i guess if you're making your quota, it doesn't matter. but if you need to sell more, you need to think outside the box. if a slightly larger car costs a little more, but would sell better, it might be worth it.
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    A larger car doesn't just cost more, but also weighs more. This reduces the efficiency, which means either sucking it up and have a lower range, or using a larger battery that will also increase cost and weight.

    The Bolt starts at $37.5k. If GM managed to keep the price increase for a larger one the same as it is between the Sonic and Cruze, the price would be $39.3k. Within the consciousness of many that's going from mid thirties to forty grand. That becomes a tougher sell. The Volt started around that price, and it didn't start selling well until GM started with the incentives.

    Also keep in mind that GM doesn't see the Bolt as a long range BEV like a Tesla. To them it is a local runabout that happens to have a range over 200 miles. For that role, the Bolt's size is plenty for most buyers. Note, I blame the dealer associations for this.
     
  3. bisco

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    200+ miles is way too much for a runabout. you have plenty of excuses, are you saying that a prius size ev is practically impossible?
    and i'm not picking on gm, my comments are for ev's in general.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    You mentioned in the other post that making the Bolt a little larger, even for a little more in price, that it would sell better. Well the Leaf is a little bigger with four more cubic feet of total volume; it is even Prius sized. It is even cheaper than the Bolt, even before any factory or dealer incentives. It is only beating the Bolt in sales in the first three months by 185 cars, and the Bolt isn't available nationwide yet.

    At this point in the plug ins' history, range trumps size when it comes to sales. Maybe the next Leaf will offer both. The Model 3 might have more space than the Bolt, but it will be a sedan with those pros and cons. A Prius sized BEV is not impossible, but it is at $30k or less if you also want range.

    GM is not making an investment in growing the CCS network. Without a reliable fast DC network, a BEV will not be more than a local car for the majority of people. Longer range just expands the circle of what is local. Perhaps GM will have a BEV designed for long range travel once the CCS network has grown out more.

    This is what I believe was GM's BEV plan. They make the Spark EV, which is a decent car compared to other BEV's of that time. As a small BEV, they can price it lower than the Volt, and it will also get better CAFE credits than a PHEV. Initial announcements did say that it would be available nationwide. However, the dropping of separate domestic and foreign car fleets that manufacturers and analysts were expecting didn't happen. Being Korean built, that meant the Spark EV's potential value for CAFE dropped. So it get left to California and Oregon only.

    I don't know if the Sonic EV project was already started before the CAFE rules changes or not, but the maintaining of the separate domestic and foreign fleets got GM to make the Bolt domestically. Now with the Bolt and Volt, I don't see GM stopping investment in future plug ins. They do have to keep the dealers happy though, and they depend on ICE maintenance for income. Which is why we got such range in the Bolt, but GM not helping to make it more usable as a long range car.
     
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    isn't the prime close in size to the bolt? iduno w/out looking up the #'s - but one would think they can't be too dissimilar in size. After all - bolt has 5 seats & Prime only has 4.

    .
     
  6. bisco

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    no way the leaf hatch is the same size as the gen 3 prius. as for the prime, let's not go there.

    if you want to talk size, how about the mitsy?
     
  7. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    GM may have thought about spreading the Spark EV. It was also available in Maryland, before being shut down.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    what - the imiev? You'll never get a wheelchair in that little thing much less a set of golf clubs along with it. otoh, Audi is trying to pull a 'tesla' by taking $2,500 reservations for their Model X killer .... the 300 mile / 95kWh, E-tron Quatro due late 2018 ($50K rumored price). If it happens - great. You got your combo wheel chair /golf Club carrier. Fit & finish worth its weigh in gold .... but a sorely lacking charging infrastructure that (even if you can find one) can in no way deliver Audi's >100kW max charge speed capability. It'll still be nice for 100+ mile trips, even w/out any infrastructure. If you'd really like cargo room & range .... many will take the Quatro over the (compact) Bolt in a heartbeat.
    .
     
  9. bisco

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    i thought there was an outlander or some such.
     
  10. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    it's a standard plugin
    - maybe 20 miles of ev
    .
     
  11. bisco

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    ah, thanks. what makes it sell so well?
     
  12. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Duno - but it's really huge in Europe & Japan. Been selling well in those markets for years. It just came to the US market though, finally. Longer delay to the US than getting teslas to market

    .
     
  13. bisco

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    maybe the size. is it bigger than a volt?
     
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Oh Heck yea - like the last generation (smaller) rav4 size !
    [​IMG]
    .
     
  15. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The gen3, gen4(no spare), and Leaf all have the same total interior volume. The Leaf's cargo area is just more vertical than horizontal.
    Compare Side-by-Side


    The iMiEV is a subcompact, which means it is smaller than the Spark and Mirage. When exactly are we getting the Outlander plug in?

    Initially they were going to go nationwide, but changed their plans. Maryland got it once the Bolt was a go in order to get some East Coast dealerships up to speed on selling a BEV.
     
  16. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Could also be that the drivetrain was made in Maryland.
     
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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  18. bisco

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    maybe i could stand my golf clubs in a leaf, instead of laying them down.
     
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Maryland is also a major port, but I remember GM's announcement being it was to get dealers prepped for the coming bolt.

    Have you taken a look at the Leaf?
     
  20. bisco

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    no, not enough miles. maybe when the 150 comes out. feels like that's the sweet spot for local driving, figure 100 in winter.
     
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