Who is plunking down $1k?

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by markabele, Feb 11, 2016.

  1. kensiko

    kensiko Member

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    There should be a 40 kWh battery option for the next Leaf that will be unveiled this fall

    Envoyé de mon Nexus 4 en utilisant Tapatalk
     
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  2. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    They are two separate thoughts. I was merely responding to the prior comment comparing the range between the Bolt and the projected range of a 75 kWh-equipped Model 3. Such a beast capable of only 260 miles seems a bit of a travesty considering what the price will likely be, and I will probably ask for a refund if that's the best they can do (or just change the reservation for a Y, which should have better carrying capacity and benefit from more battery space + greater energy density, but I doubt I can hold out until 2020; at least the current Prius would still be okay with a projected 96k miles of use). The supercharging comment has to do with how much more congested they would be if the Model 3 at max battery size in the dual motor configuration only has marginally more range than the Bolt. I really really wanted a 300-mile range option, but lowered expectations seem to be coming at a freefall as the launch approaches including Elon's recurrent comments about the Model 3 being little more than a gimpy Model S.
    Geeze, this is really starting to feel like the third degree. :pMy comment that caused such an uproar was a response to your own Bolt/Model 3 range comparison (supposing a 300-mile capability; do you no longer stand by this?), and I was just interjecting that the max battery pack on the 3 should go quite a bit further than the Bolt, nothing more nothing less (the Bolt charging situation is ancillary to the point I was making since GM doesn't have a similarly robust charging network, and thus I don't consider the Bolt to be suitable for much beyond a commuter car that you charge at home whereas the Model 3 has loftier goals). The price differential will be significant after all.
     
    #242 vinnie97, May 4, 2017
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
  3. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Even IF your assumption about superchargers is being crowded, I would rather have a crowded SC network rather than no long distance charging network at all.
    I doubt the Model Y will have any more batteries. However, by 2020, the batteries will continue to improve, so the range may get longer even if the battery pack is the same physical size.

    I am sorry you set yourself up for disappointment with the range expectations.
    Tesla tends to announce their goals, which are very high. They also often fall short of those goals, but still deliver something very very good.
    Setting your own expectations above theirs is a recipe for disappointment. Setting expectations that match their goals is already on shaky ground.

    As for the Model 3, the base price is half of the base price of the S. Why did you expect it not to be "gimpy" as you put it? I certainly didn't expect it to have all the bells and whistles the S has.
     
  4. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    "Gimpy" is more or less a euphemism for how Tesla themselves keep talking it down (the lack of even a rudimentary speedometer anywhere on the dash already caused disappointment). As a tech company accustomed to selling luxury EVs, I guess having the most advanced battery tech is about as good as can be expected...and on that note, it seems TSLA had the wind taken out of it after the quarterly financial statement. The S has battery options that take it well above 300 to 335 miles. A Model 3 option with maximum battery pack and dual motors (in the $50k range) that reaches 300 didn't/doesn't seem entirely out of line.
     
  5. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I don't think you know what "euphemism" means :p
    Tesla has stated the Model 3 will not have any technologies that aren't available in the Model S.
    The lack of a driver's instrument display is a big concern of me. The center display in the thrid gen Prius was one of my biggest complaints. I am very ... apprehensive about only having a center console in the Model 3.

    Someday in the future the Model 3 will have a 300 mile range. But to expect Tesla to somehow package a battery pack with 300 miles of range is, in my opinion, unjustified. The smaller frame of the Model 3 simply won't support a battery pack of that size.
     
  6. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    Euphemism usually describes something even worse, I understand, but it was the most apt literary vehicle I could find on a moment's notice. ;) The mathematical computations, assuming expected drag coefficients, have shown that ~300 miles (or just shy) is not totally out of the question. Elon said there wasn't enough space for 100 kWh packs, but what I'm wondering is if 75 kWh is the theoretical maximum based on the new density, or if this is an intentional crippling to keep the S more desirable with its greater range.
     
  7. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    I'm not sure how you were expecting an excess of 300 miles when the announcement said minimum 200 miles range. I mean the only S model that gets this kind of range is the 100D which starts at $97,500. You wanted to get a “non-gimped” car with that kind of range for a third of the price? How?

    The S, as sold today, has an 86-mile range of batteries between the lowest and highest.

    Real life tells us that when someone says “at least X”, you can reasonably expect to get X+1.

    Putting the two together, I would never expect more than 290 miles of range from a top of the line 3. Now factor in that the 3 will indeed have fewer options, and has less room to work with for the battery, and a much more realistic assumption would be something like 265 miles with dual motor, 240 miles single motor. That would be the upgraded model. I expect the entry level models to be 30-35 miles less than that.

    In addition to all that, every Tesla has access to chademo + SC network, which is more than any other car on the market. So even if SCs somehow get super crowded (remember that unlimited free charging is gone), don't forget that every Tesla can charge from traditional DCFC stations too.
     
  8. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    it's purely speculative from the point of us onlookers - but your guess is in fact a tad too low - considering that Elon Musk has already tweeted that range will be "greater" than the Bolt. So ... a range of 239 miles would necessarily be the starting point, based on that.
    .
     
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  9. Primetoronto

    Primetoronto Junior Member

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    Yes I would satisfy with 239 miles range. The Prime is not available for Sale in Ontario Canada this year, so I will have to stick with my original plan for Tm3. My reservation was on April 2nd, guess I could have the Tm3 by May 2018. What do you guys think my estimate purchase date?

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
  10. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    Wow, never did I claim I expected a 300-mile range for $35k. Where did you get that? For ~52k, I'd sure as heck expect something approaching that. I just don't think 300 miles is out of the question for the max battery pack dual motor option, even though that's pushing the limits of what's possible. I also find it almost unacceptable to be denied an odometer on the dash for $35k. Sub $20k vehicles sport that "luxury" for goodness' sake.

    Elon wants to accelerate the efforts to convert to sustainable energy in the face of lowering oil prices. The range has to be within a stone's throw of ICE mobiles and not be approaching supercar prices to get it. The snippiness in this thread is too thick. I'm out.
     
    #250 vinnie97, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    do you have a link quoting a Tesla official that this "no odometer on the dash" setup is in fact on the final model that will actually be sold, as opposed to just the test mule Fleet?
    .
     
    #251 hill, May 10, 2017
    Last edited: May 10, 2017
  12. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    Personally I find it hilarious that people are going this bonkers over a speedo.

    Like…seriously? Of all the things that matter to you in your car, this is it? THE deal breaker?

    Tesla has in many ways reminded me of Apple over the years. This latest "spat" just solidifies that impression. This is a company that does not look backwards.
     
  13. lensovet

    lensovet Not your typical youngin :)/BP Brigade 207

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    Even if we aren't talking about the base model, I still don't understand where that expectation comes from. Yes, this car will have less features/space/range than the next larger car in the lineup. Again, I don't understand what's so controversial about this. The iPhone SE does not come in a capacity of 128 GB or with the highest resolution camera. A Toyota Corolla won't have adaptive cruise control which a Camry does.

    A model 3 will not have range that exceeds the range of a model S.

    That's not gimping, it's market segmentation and it's not unique to tesla. Yeah, it sucks, but welcome to capitalism.
     
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Not wanting to disagree with lensovet above, but i just found an online picture of a model 3 at a supercharger station, showing what a "LARGE" traction pack in the 3 appears to do;

    [​IMG]

    Tesla Model 3: new picture of interface shows range could go up to 300 miles | Electrek

    Tesla Model 3 design is “pretty much final,” plus new insights from a batch of high quality photos | Electrek

    obviously, that aint your low ball / minimum sized / entry level traction pack ... but WOW, not too shabby !!
    That means the 3 could get around 100 miles more, the the older / 60kWh packs in the early release Model X's. Oh the irony.
    :D
    As for the wheels pictured in that 2nd link? They may be for better efficiency ... but Eck . . . hope they have other options.
    EDIT;
    Whew !!
    found they come with wheel options.
    [​IMG]
    .
     
    #254 hill, Jul 17, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2017
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  15. vinnie97

    vinnie97 Whatever Works

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    It's pretty simple. If you pay for the battery option, you should get the associated range increase. That's how to proceed if you're serious about fulfilling the requisite goal of sustainable transport. We can finally put this to rest in a week.

    As for the quote about the lack of odo on the dash, Elon Tweeted it (sorry, don't have the link handy).
     
  16. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    Tesla has made the automobile just an appliance, I know for some, a car is nothing more than an appliance, but for us true car guys the Model 3 is painful to look at!
     
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    That phrase almost sounds like something pulled out of my, aahh ... never mind. So ... what does one have to own, or what do you have to be, or what exactly is the criteria , in order to be a "true car guy"? This should be interesting.
     
  18. orenji

    orenji Senior Member

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    For me personally the car should have some type of soul, the Model S and Model 3 interiors are just too sterile for my tastes. The large I-Pad screens just don't provide the warmth I expect from a high end luxury car. I like switch gear, I like the sound of solid feeling buttons switches, I like a drivers car, not a computer on wheels. You know like Porsche, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes and Infiniti.
     
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  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Toyota beat them too it decades ago.
     
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  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Soul - Webser says that means an eternal human spirit . 90% of cars 40 years old & older are junked. so ....... so much for eternal
    :rolleyes:
    and which of the, "Porsche, BMW, Lexus, Mercedes Infiniti" is your eternal car? last i noticed I thought your choice was a prius C ? , Congratulations on your new ride! ... which ever of the above 5 you moved over to.
    BTW, the Model 3, starting at $35k before incentives, is not a luxury car, it's just a sedan .... so ... where'd the notion "luxury car" come from.
    It's likely neither of us, nor anyone on PC has seen or driven one ... and to say it's "this" or "that" would otherwise be a bit preliminary, to say the least.
    But for those who HAVE actually seen/driven them?
    Here's What Everyone Says About How The Tesla Model 3 Drives | Gizmodo Australia

    So ... it sounds more like 'someone' is not a member of 'everyone'.
    ;)
    .
     
    #260 hill, Aug 19, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017
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