Who killed the electric car?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ May 25 2006, 10:44 PM) [snapback]261154[/snapback]</div>

The point is all the hypocrisy. The point is contempt for all the scapegoating.

I get it. You guys love Toyota. They're you're hometown football team. Therefore all the other teams, such as the US automakers are the arch enemy. Toyota can do no wrong, and GM can do no right.

Add that to the inherent need to assign blame these days to someone, anyone, and you get: "Why don't we have electric vehicles today? It's the greedy US automakers' fault!!! Its the oil companies' fault!!! Its Bush's fault!!!"

"Toyota is very progressive and cares about the world" "US automakers are lazy, greedy pigs that care only about lining their pockets" "GM is still making under 20 mpg SUVs. When will they get it?" "Toyota just came out with a new sub-20 mpg SUV. What a cool car!" "GM canceled their EVs. What stupid greedy pigs they are!" "Toyota canceled their EVs. <silence...> What a cool car the FJ Cruiser is!"

Blaming GM for the lack of EV cars is narrow minded. Unless GM pulls the strings of all the governments and automakers in the world, then how can they be solely to blame for the lack of EVs in the world? Many other first world governments, particularly in Europe are much more "progressive" than the US. They have no qualms about government regulation. Their citizens pay much more than we do for fuel. And you know as much as I do that if EV vehicles were plentiful in Europe and Asia, then they would find their way to the US. Seems to me that it's a little more complex then it's all GM's fault or it's all the oil companies' fault.

And that's what I've been talking about all along. It is the presumption of the movie that the finger of blame can be pointed at a couple of US entities, while ignoring the rest of the industrialized world that has been my point. That's why I have been consistently asking why, if it's all GM's fault, does the rest of the world not have EV cars?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ May 26 2006, 07:14 AM) [snapback]261268[/snapback]</div>

Agreed. The same could be said of Canada. Looks like they're ready to back out of Kyoto because they're making too much money with their oil sands. <_< Nevermind the fact that oil sand production is one of the main reasons why Canada's GHG emissions are going through the roof. The rate of change of their emissions is much greater than that of the US.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ May 25 2006, 10:44 PM) [snapback]261154[/snapback]</div>

Agreed. It certainly is not the first time someone in US industry blew an opportunity.

Though I should, perhaps, restate this in the next "quote" section, I'll do it here. In the early 1900s we did have electric cars. They were killed then because they were more expensive than gasoline powered vehicles, not to mention that they must have had significant technological problems in those days.

However, if the industry had decided to keep researching them, we'd likely have "reasonable" electric cars now.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ May 26 2006, 09:14 AM) [snapback]261268[/snapback]</div>

Correct. GM can do no right in my eyes, and that is why I'm choosing to buy Toyota rather than waste my money on products that have proven over time to be unreliable. I don't have all kinds of time to be running back and forth to the shop with my primary transportation because I made a stupid choice to buy something unreliable. You are certainly welcome to your own opinion. BTW - The fact that the repair history of the Prius is one of the best in the industry is a primary factor that I took into my decision to get one.

You may be surprised at the fact that there are at least some people that think that having to frequently take your primary transportation for repairs is normal. Check out the '95 car buying issue of Consumer Reports for more detail on that. You may be even more surprised that people buy cars that have poor repair histories because those cars are "status" symbols. Take the Mini for instance.

If I were not buying a Prius, I would only consider Toyota or Honda anyway. Why? Again because of their reputation for quality and because of the lack of a reputation for quality on the part of many other car manufacturers.

Bush is part of the problem. It is known fact that one of the first things that Bush did when he got into office is cancel all kinds of alternative energy research programs in favor of fuel cell research. Experts who make a profession of fuel cells state that the technology is almost certainly far from being marketable. So why, then, does did Bush push an immature technology? If you want a conspiracy theory in answer to that question, have a look at this-
http://www.motherjones.com/news/outfront/2.../ma_375_01.html

I just love it when people put words in my mouth. It keeps me from having to expend the energy to say anything. :lol:

Sorry, I'm not a fan of gas guzzling SUVs. I do not need one, and I realize that having one is not going to make me more masculine. Damn! :lol:

If I had a use for an SUV, I'd shop Toyota or Honda. Why? Again, one word, quality.

Given their track record in the US for pulling the strings of the US government, you can bet that anywhere in the world where GM has an established market, they employ lobbiests to pull the strings of the corresponding government. Like it or not (or should I say whether you want to recognize it or not), it is the way GM does business.

We could start a debate on this, too.

I doubt that. I'm much more willing to bet that anywhere there is government, there is always someone who does not agree with it. It is human nature to have a different opinion.

No, it is not. Perhaps this is what it sounds like I'm saying. YES, I DO point the finger at certain companies, however, I do that because of their track record. As darelldd stated, every technological innovation was going to drive automakers, particularly US automakers (based on their own public comments), into bankruptcy. However, they are still around, aren't they, at least for the time being. :lol:

Still, though, I wouldn't take a vehicle from many European automakers even if you gave one to me. Why? Again, that one word - quality. The reputation for quality from many European automakers is even worse than that of US automakers.

Have you seen the movie, yet? It sure sounds like you have. So, tell me, based on what sounds like a fact of your having seen the movie, how was it?

Oh, I forgot. The movie has not been released to the general public yet. :blink:

See my answer above. I'll paraphrase it for you. The greedy auto industry gave up on them years ago so that they could line their pockets with money and help trash the planet.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 26 2006, 01:45 PM) [snapback]261381[/snapback]</div>

You think you got me on that one don't you...

No I haven't seen the unreleased movie. But I did visit it's web site that was posted on the other PriusChat topic about this movie. That web site contains a very nice Flash presentation that very clearly spells out the premise and the conculsions of the movie. And it's almost solely about GM, DiamlerChrysler, the American Automobile Manufactures Association, the California Air Resources Board, the ZEV Mandate, and the Oil Companies (Exxon specifically mentioned).

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

All right. Let's accept the premise that GM, Exxon, et. al. killed electric vehicles in the US and they did it because they were lazy, greedy, stupid, or whatever. My question is that if EV cars made so much sense back in the 90's that if not for the malicious acts of GM, Exxon, et. al., EV cars would have thrived, then how come the rest of the world isn't awash with EV cars, and how come we aren't the only industrialized contry still driving fossil fuel powered cars?

 

I LOVEEE THE EV1! Another thing that GM was just too ahead of its time. They will be collector cars guaranteed since GM leased most of them as company cars and crushed them when they were returned

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Marlin @ May 26 2006, 07:14 AM) [snapback]261268[/snapback]</div>

Does Nemo work for GM or something? I just don't see how anybody could argue with darelldd of all people. I don't like the FJ cruiser, Tundra, Landcruiser, or many of the new American and Japanese built Toyota models, and I take offense at the assumption that I (as a priuschat member) am completely diehard loyal to Toyota or to foreign auto makers. That is the kind of close mindedness that pollutes society. Foreign auto makers just happen to be producing the best right now, which couldn't be said 50 years ago. I imagine I will be driving a Chinese made car in another 25 years the way things are going now. I drive a Prius because it is the most efficient car that I can afford as a college student and it has unmatched quality and reliability and was top rated by consumer reports. I do not approve of any automaker's destruction of their EVs and abandonment of the technology but I can understand why they did it. Most Americans are very here and now in their buying tastes and go from Ford Excursions(why hold only 5 when you can take 20?) to Hummer Bling Bling whaddup to "That thing got a hemi?" in recent years. Thats what was cool, thats what everyone wanted. Now gas prices are up and its "Live green go yellow" bullsh!t from GM trying to make their Gas guzzlers that they spent millions developing to the hummer "bling bling craze" that died out months ago appeal to the American public now wanting good fuel economy. I know it takes lots of money and time to develop new cars, new ideas, and people don't like to change but they will at a whims notice with high gas prices or a change of mindset in the modern media. Thats the way America works from a business perspective and until we are all fried by the sun and the atmosphere is gone, snowcaps melted, out of oil or whatever, people will buy what is cool not what is smart. EVs are smart but until now have not been cool to the American public. I can only hope that the future will bring back the EVs for long enough for me to get one before they kill them again.

Back to the original post!!! (sorry for sidetracks)
I called my local indie theater and told them about the film. They seemed very interested and I hope they can get it. I can't wait to see it, and I may do a Prius roadtrip to see it sooner! Thanks Darelldd!

 

I posted about this movie on another forum. It is a great film and will certainly make you angry, not only at the obvious culprits like GM, but the smarmy politicos who are in bed with big oil and autos. I expect there will be yet another serious dis-information campaign by GM and Exxon to dispute facts presented in this film, and the viciousness of those attacks will be a direct validation of how right-on the movie is. It is sometimes disgusting to live in a country where the government is virtually indistinguishable from the wealthiest and sleaziest corporations.

I hope you all get a chance to see it!

Bob

 

darell, I think you have the most correct answer.

As a follow on, i think so people fear change. I know people that look at the prius and find nothing good to say. the FIRST day i had my prius, i had some guy ask me if my car was running, and when he saw it was a hybrid (it says it on the side), he said, that i needed to take that back to the dealer and get something else.

I say give it time. I believe people will realize the electric car and hybrid car will soon be a smart choice, most of my friends have gotten a hybrid (the new camry isn't as fuel efficent but has some power i don't) , or are planning to make it their next car.

its also the attitude people have, or atleast the people around here.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jun 16 2006, 04:44 PM) [snapback]272480[/snapback]</div>

Ehh, according to this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

GM had no choice but to kill the EV1 due to its lack of safety compliance in the 'out-years'.

 

Meanwhile, the last EV1 has just been removed from the Smithsonian and moved to where they store the lost ark: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/115...Car_Booted.html

edit:
as been said, NOT the last uncrushed EV1 however.

 

So GM killed the electric car? Did they secretly black-mail Toyota, Nissan, Hyundai, BMW, Volkswagen, Honda, Daimler among others not to build EV cars?
Really surprising a movie from Sony would attack GM and not Toyota isn't it?
Some of you guys will just never get it. And to the poster with the comment about "the way things are going today in 25 years I will be driving a Chinese-made car", if things continue the way they are going today(rate of savings, trade-deficit, government deficits, rate of government growth, rate of tax increase) you and most Americans won't be able to afford a car.