Who sells the most cars and trucks in America?

My point is still the same. American car defenders are always saying the same thing, and it sounds like this:

"Hey You, Toyota buyer, you're STUPID. That's right, YOU, you IDIOT. Don't you know that Consumer Reports is rigged and that the Buick Century is just as good as the Camry? Really, really it is. If you don't believe us and buy one right now, you are REALLY STUPID. YOU STUPID MOFO, BUY OUR CAR! COME ON! How many more times do we have to INSULT YOU and BADGER YOU until buy our Mexican and Canadian built AMERICAN car? What? You say you find the car unappealing? Too bad, we just TOLD YOU IT'S GOOD, you DUMBASS! Give US your MONEY! NOW! WHAT? You DON'T CARE if it's just as good as a Camry, you still like your Camry? WHAT? YOU IDIOT! CONSUMER REPORTS IS LIES! And it's people like YOU that HELP THEM LIE! WHAT? You liked the last three CAMRYS you owned and are going to BUY another one? HOW STUPID ARE YOU?"

I for one am tired of being told the domestics why my car should be unappealing to me, and insulting me for liking my car. You want me to buy a Chevy? Or a Ford? Offer a product that appeals to me. Stop telling me I have no taste. Import buyers are wealthy, educated, and dare I say upper class? Domestic buyers are poorer, less educated and certainly lower class. Do you think I'm actually going to buy a Suburban because some redneck thinks it feels tough?

The more the domestic owner community and manufacturers insult us and tell us how proud they are to be rednecks, the further I want to be from them, and the less I want to be associated with them.

This is a free country, so you many continue to call us stupid for buying our Toyotas. We will continue to vote with our pocketbooks, and the domestics will continue to hurt. Besides, there is always some redneck somewhere who needs more room for his guns and chewing tobacco, so there will always be a market for Ford and Chevy. The question is, will there be profit...

Go ahead, call me stupid some more. Call Consumer Reports stupid some more. I'll just take my high-income, educated, good credit, premium paying, waiting list wanting self back to the Toyota dealer. As will millions more, day after day. Rednecks, stop when you see the bowtie or the blue oval.

Nate

 

Oh PLEASE! Every one of the issues you mentioned WAS an issue YEARS before GM (or any other U.S. automaker) started having financial difficulties and/or started losing market share to foreign manufacturers.

I mean, you're making it sound as if most every problem we have in this country could be immediately resolved if Americans would only buy domestic vehicles.

 

are you guys still arguing with him? I feel so much cleaner now that the ignore has been set Maybe GM and Ford will survive somehow. I hope they do. Perhaps they can merge and call themselves "Cars R Us"

 

malorn, I don't think you understand. I HATE GM. I am typical of many import buyers. I have been burned in the past, and don't want to get burned again. The domestics want me to buy their car to feel more AMERICAN. It's the biggest bunch of crap I've ever heard! As if the company was owned by the US government! You want Patriotism? It comes in the form of lower dependence on foreign oil, and that, today, comes from Toyota.

As far as more money for my community and cutting deficit spending, that's easy, stop the war for oil to support GM's gas guzzling behemoths that they need so badly to stay afloat.

Before I buy another domestic car, I want a refund from GM for my parents' 1984 Olds Ciera, from a car company so awful that one day it just shut down.

Oh, and by the way, the schools around here are doing very well, thanks to the high taxes I pay. But, I can afford them since I don't spend very much on gasoline.

Another way to reduce the Federal Government's deficit would be for GM, Ford, and Chrysler to give back the money they STOLE for the Alternative Fuel Research Program. They did a ton of "research" using taxpayer money and have NOTHING to show for it.

Of course, there you go insulting me again. Question my Patriotism? Still not buying a domestic car. Keep the insults coming! I bet if you keep it up, I'll really want to buy that new Tahoe! Go ahead, tell me some more how you think I have a closed mind, how I'm hurting my economy, how what's good for GM is good for America, and how giant gas guzzling SUVs are good for America, that Toyota is Evil, and Wagoner is God's gift to the auto industry. Well, it's not going to work. You still can't have my money.

It's like the dark side, man. The more angry you get, the more you want to tell me I'm wrong, the less I want to give you my money. And that makes you even more upset with me, and makes you think I am un-American, and that if was a true red-blooded American, I would be driving a GM car or truck. You resent me, and believe it is me that is causing the economy to be hurt, when really it is George Bush, the war for oil, gas guzzlers from GM, collusion with the oil companies and domestic automakers and a greedy UAW that is hurting this country. You don't agree, and want to point out my wrongness, but I'm still not giving you my money.

Tell me again how I'm wrong. I'm man enough to hear it. I'll even give you the last word. But I'm still not giving GM my money.

I'll tell you what, I'll make one exception, there is one car that carried that GM badge that I would buy. If GM had any brains at all, they would take their EV1 program out of mothball and begin producing them en masse. It would be the hottest car on the road and leave Toyota playing catchup. And there would be one in my garage. And my money would be in GM's coffers. But it will never happen, they would rather die than build a car that doesn't appeal to the lower class. So it seems GM still can't have my money.

Nate

 

Wow, I've avoided getting into a topic where malorn has posted, but it all just hit the fan. As a first hand witness to the current state of the public school system, I know where the problems come from. They come from jack***es like Bush and his gang that's in power. People who buy Asian cars do not harm me in any way, in fact they help me by purchasing cleaner cars that won't screw up my future. I looked at domestic cars for about an hour just to keep my mind open, but I knew that I would regret buying a domestic car. I thought the Malibu Maxx was practical when we rented it on vacation, but when I saw the 23k price tag, I backed off (I ran when I saw the fuel economy). I have also seen so much GM propaganda over at Disney that it makes me sick. GM is their sponsor for Test Track (it's a ride in Epcot) and they have a mini showroom at the end of the ride. Even with all of the cars they have had in there since 1997, the only car that seemed nice was the Malibu. It also doesn't show well for GM when you display an H2 and don't have the guts to show the fuel economy, or lack thereof. Also, because you mentioned the stalling recall with the Prius, I will mention the massive recall on Fords with defective cruise control switches (cars burst into flames when they're just sitting in the garage). Until American car companies start building high quality cars and respect the consumer, more and more people will buy foreign. So cut the BS and get your Toyota dealer and stop treating people like they're stupid.

 

Malorn, obtaining a Toyota dealership is means to what end ?

 

Malorn, don't forget what jayman said:

"Ssshhh you'll make him paranoid. Don't mention how the Prius constantly records audio and video, which is transmitted back to Secret Toyota Headquarters buried under Mt Fuji. Or how Toyota is implanting Mind Control Chips into pre-schoolers."

 

Some good sales figures?

 

Well, conversely I do have to step in and say all the domestics I've owned in the past have treated me extremely well. I can't say anything about GM though, as I've never owned one, been pretty much a Ford guy. All the Fords I've owned have been as reliable as Toyota is supposed to be (and this includes an F150, a Cobra Mustang, and a V6 Mustang). As a matter of fact, my personal experience, up until I picked up the Prius, has been the reverse of what many are talking about. I had a 280ZX for which body rot ran rampid, a Volkswagen Jetta for which in my 2 years of ownership did not go more than 90 days without being in a shop, another VW Rabbit that simply "grenaded" on me one day.

Of course, had I bought a Honda things might have been different... :lol:

But the Fords were awesome. The old 5.0 was one of the most FUN engines to modify and work on, unlike the ultra-crammed non-user servicable foreign cars.

I got 100K miles out of the Cobra, no real problems other than wear and tear items, 98K miles out of the F150, same thing, nothing other than wear and tear, and 148K out of my V6 Mustang (which I still have to this day, and runs like it did on day 1).

I would ask, is that coincidence?

I got the Prius because gas prices were getting out of hand, plus, I simply thought it was a cool car.

I, for one, generally don't believe anything anyone tells me, and this includes consumer reports, but rather word of mouth over time, and actually knowing people with vehicles I might be interested in. Of course, general "word of mouth" on Toyota and Honda is that they last forever. Obviously, there's a reason for hearing such from different sources, repeatedly over time. Plus, I've personally observed many friends/family members with Honda vehicles, and I must concur.

I guess what I'm saying is that I won't exclude domestics without giving them a shot/test drive/etc. first, but I will admit, I've heard nothing but terrible things about GM, repeatedly, over time... Too many stories like Jayman's oil leak flying around.... Even so, if there was a GM product I happen to like, I'd go for it, and keep my research to that particular model and year, such as a couple Sierra quad-cab pick ups I was looking at a few weeks ago... B)

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you were not aware that "Japs" is a very derogatory term. Please refrain from using it on public forums.

 

Neither CR nor word of mouth is a representative sample of the population. However, one must take what you can get, and even though word of mouth (or CR) isn't statistically conclusive , it is one of the main ideas behind group therapy. If one person you know tells you about a great experience with foreign, and horrible with domestic, not that big a deal. However, if 10 people tell you that that had a great experience with foreign and a horrible with domestic, then you take a look at foreign. CR isn't a representative sample, but malorn, what is a long-term reliability report that does come from a truly representative sample?

In my own limited experience, my parents have had good experiences with domestic trucks, but not so good with domestic cars and an domestic minivan. However, they had a 1984 Camry that had 225K when sold. This car when through three teenager drivers and the only major thing that was replaced was multiple mufflers (we often when the dirt roads that were Kryptonite to mufflers). It was sold in 2003 because the alternator needed replaced and my dad felt like it was time to move on.

That and all of the reports I see about the good reliability of Toyotas is why I wanted to buy a Toyota.

 

Gee, and all this time I thought Japanese imperialism had something to do with it. Silly me.

 

I find it amusing that malorn is happy to trumpet jd Power's data, but wishes to ignore CR data as 'unrepresentative'.

Guess what ? Both surveys are of people reporting on the cars THEY bought new and own. Listening to malorn might lead one to conclude that Prius owners report on the Malibu in CR.

The ONLY significant difference between the data sets is the length of time covered, and in that CR is vastly superior. And if you look at five year ownership data, domestic cars tend to stink.

Please malorn, take your political innuendo, and stuff it. And as for using statistical lingo to give your line a quasi sounding aura of legitamacy when in fact it is BS -- sorry.

 

Actually, that's precisely what CR found out. American cars are nearly or just as good as Asian cars in the very beginning. As time goes on, more and more things go wrong with the American cars. More and more things begin to fall off of them. It's like buying a dixie cup. Pretty useless after a while. Of course, the American car companies have NEVER sold me a car that was even close to the quality of my Toyotas in the beginning so evidently even that initial quality isn't consistent. I see so many new American cars on the road with one DRL or brake light or headligt that's burned out, misaimed, loose. The local news agencies don't help matters by talking as if the quality issue is already moot. Unbelievable; and they call themselves journalists.

 

The current Camry is pushing the end of it's lifecycle. Its easily a 5 year old design, yes with a 5 year old interior. It's not fair to compare it to the likes of the Fusion which was introduced in 2005.

If you're going to compare it, compare it to the 2007 Camry, which will be introduced at the detroit auto show in a few weeks... and then any HSD comparisons are fair game as well.