Who's to blame for high gas prices?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by NuShrike, Apr 13, 2006.

  1. NuShrike

    NuShrike Active Member

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    Politicians propose legislation that would increase regulatory scrutiny of Big Oil - but fail to mention that voters could maybe give up the giant SUVs.

    By Nelson D. Schwartz, FORTUNE senior writer
    April 13, 2006: 2:06 PM EDT

    LONDON (FORTUNE) - Spring is not even a month old but it's already promising to be a long hot summer for American drivers. Gasoline prices are surging toward highs not seen since the wake of Hurricane Katrina last fall - the national average now stands at $2.68 a gallon - and some experts are predicting $3.00 a gallon before long.

    Consumers aren't the only ones feeling the heat, though - on Capitol Hill, politicians are scrambling to head off the anger of constituents furious about having to spend $50 each time they fuel up their Honda Accord or Ford Taurus and roughly double that to fill the tank of a maxi-SUV.
    [...]
    Perhaps haranguing CEOs makes for better soundbites back home. But when oil CEOs like Chevron's Dave O'Reilly spend more time talking about conservation than our elected officials, you know we've got a real problem on our hands - one that will last well beyond the summer driving season.

    [full-article]
     
  2. tripp

    tripp Which it's a 'ybrid, ain't it?

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    It's funny how people get so pissed by basic economics and their own stupid decisions. Funny how personal responsibility has been stamped out of the American Psyche.
     
  3. naterprius

    naterprius Senior Member

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    But Tripp, the Republican Party is the "Party of Personal Responsibility." Didn't you know?

    My brother-in-law told me this (he was serious) and I almost fell of my chair laughing so hard.

    Since when do Republicans take responsibility for anything?

    Nate
     
  4. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Apr 15 2006, 03:57 PM) [snapback]240243[/snapback]</div>
    LOL republican bashing again... I dont think all of us share your inlaws views..

    This has been a growing trend on all sides since 1990 and has been on a steady decline. I have to agree with tripp's comment "Funny how personal responsibility has been stamped out of the American Psyche".

    Yeah its not my problem let the goverment fix it, or hey my kids not doing well in school well its the teachers fault my kids not doing thier homework, or I cant work I stepped on this nail 10 yrs ago and walk with a limp so im disabled but its ok the goverment will pay my way, heck My wife works at macdonalds and drives an escalade that welfare pays for because we needed a big enough car to haul our 6 kids. (It was the nails fault) its the rich and middle class people are the reason I cant get my 42" plasma tv they arent paying enought taxes to cover my welfair checks

    Its just sickening,


    I would like to know why DIESEL costs more than refined gasoline?
    no one has been able to answer this question...
     
  5. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I can't wait until someone is elected who believes in small government, personal accountability, and limited international interventions.
     
  6. skruse

    skruse Senior Member

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    I concur. We need to take more personal responsibility.

    When I stop at the bank, gasoline station or stoplight - all the ICE-powered vehicles are idling (except Prii). Usually these are SUV-size vehicles. Do new vehicles have so many accessories that owners/drivers feel they must continue idling, even when refueling?!

    Occasionally I stop and ask, "Why is your engine running when you are parked?" The response is, "We're running the heater or air conditioner," "We're listening to the radio," or "I'm letting it warm up" or "It will take more fuel to restart than to just let it idle." I then asked, "What about air quality?" The response is usually, "That's not my problem." The mythology embodied in operating an traditional ICE-powered vehicle is clouding most people's vision. We are in need of a major paradigm shift regarding energy and transportation.
     
  7. Ray Moore

    Ray Moore Active Member

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    To answer the question about diesel costs; a barrel of crude produces a certain amount of gasoline and a certain amount of heating oil/diesel fuel. In the winter, the diesel demand is added to the heating oil demand and causes prices to rise. In the summer, diesel costs fall relative to gasoline because of a reduction in heating oil demand. Soon we will see a switch in price value as gasoline becomes even more expensive during the crossover to ethanol blended gas and diesel fuel will become the bargain again, at least until next winter.
     
  8. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ray Moore @ Apr 15 2006, 05:07 PM) [snapback]240274[/snapback]</div>

    Here in Fla we dont really use heating oil that much, we use natural gas or electric.. I guess you still eat the cost no matter were you live. :angry:

    reg here is 2.79, premium is 3.00, deisel is 2.84

    I just fueled my 04' Prius 11.0 gal $27.00.
    Then I fueled my 04' tundra cost me $47.00 and filled just below the F mark..
    Thats just eye opening.... :eek:
     
  9. barbaram

    barbaram Active Member

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    It's funny how everybody forgets to talk about the runaway demand for oil from CHINA!
     
  10. Three60guy

    Three60guy -->All around guy<-- (360 = round) get it?

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    When demand is greater than supply where does the price go? Up of course. Any questions?
     
  11. Cameron

    Cameron New Member

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    It’s a great system when it’s allowed to work. Greed should be auto-regulated by open market competition on a level playing field. However, we need big government to regulate big business. Without government protections, big business will always find ways to tilt the field in their favor. Price fixing, hostile takeovers, consumer fraud, and other predatory practices will destroy our values. It also helps to have an enlightened public willing to educate itself and make smart decisions, kind of like Prius owners (no matter our stripes). I believe through healthy debate and the honest exchange of ideas, we can make a better place. Sappy but true.
     
  12. Three60guy

    Three60guy -->All around guy<-- (360 = round) get it?

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    Allowed to work? IT IS WORKING. We, as a country, don't like it because our typical values are with SUV's and other gas guzzling vehicles. Oil is going to get more expensive because we are addicted to OIL. Not only that, we have been so good at exporting our values, other countries are addicted as well. Look at China. I believe we are going to be going through some rather painful periods in the relative short period of time. Short of discovering how to produce fusion power the lifestyle of this planet will be reduced. It is already starting.

    Everyone here who has a Prius should be commended for doing their part in conservation efforts. But thinking this problem will go away if "Big Government" gets involved is not accepting reality. China alone has created enough demand for oil to make a huge difference. How will our government be able to do anything about that? Oh, go to war with China? It didn't work in Iraq. It won't work in Iran, Korea or China. Face it, our lifestyle will change. Start now to plan for it.

    Why? Simply because to the degree oil is part of every day life, when our clothes, plastics, pestisides, and a host of other uses oil has in our lives is concerned, we will be paying more for all those things. That will have a domino effect and will effect our lifestyles directly.

    Thinking locally is the answer. Finding answers in our own back yard is the secret to dealing with this issue. Put up solar on your roof, windmills to create electricity, growing your own garden of favorite foods. Conserving where we can. Many will laugh at me when they read this but I believe this will come to pass and not too long from now.

    I may be wrong.....I hope I am. But we simply can not think the days of cheap energy are in our future if only big government gets involved. Nope, that wont happen.

    Cheers
     
  13. JackDodge

    JackDodge Gold Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ray Moore @ Apr 15 2006, 05:07 PM) [snapback]240274[/snapback]</div>
    From a post (poll) of mine several months ago in Fuel Economy:

    "From a barrel of oil (42 gallons), you can get 19.5 gallons of gasoline, 9 gallons of fuel oil, 4 gallons of jet fuel and 11 gallons of other products such as lubricants, kerosene, asphalt and petrochemical feedstocks to make plastics."

    The price of diesel has been high due, primarily, to increase in demand from China and other countries.
     
  14. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    :( <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Apr 16 2006, 11:42 AM) [snapback]240504[/snapback]</div>
    The price of Diesel Fuel went up after the 73 oil crises, when America responded by building American powered diesel autos. Also at that period and for 10-15 years later fuel economy standards were mandated and improved and demand decreased and prices improved. However I believe that the inversion of the Diesel fuel price to the gasoline price occurred with increased production of diesel autos and later on, small diesel trucks. There was a mild effect on demand, but I think that the oil companies saw an opportunity to raise the price of diesel fuel, blame demand and then really soak it to the 18 wheelers. This is where the greatest demand is and of course the greatest profit! This hurts us all as transportation cost of vital neccesities effects the economy. This all happened a good 25 years before China. I am not a Tractor Trailer Operator.
     
  15. priusenvy

    priusenvy Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Three60guy @ Apr 16 2006, 08:22 AM) [snapback]240491[/snapback]</div>
    Twenty-five to fifty years from now you will be proven correct, and then all those people who are facing downscaling of their lifestyles will be screaming, "Why didn't the government warn us back in 2006?" Well, all the signs were there, people just chose to ignore them.
     
  16. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    This makes better sence to me~ thank you.

    The price of Diesel Fuel went up after the 73 oil crises, when America responded by building American powered diesel autos. Also at that period and for 10-15 years later fuel economy standards were mandated and improved and demand decreased and prices improved. However I believe that the inversion of the Diesel fuel price to the gasoline price occurred with increased production of diesel autos and later on, small diesel trucks. There was a mild effect on demand, but I think that the oil companies saw an opportunity to raise the price of diesel fuel, blame demand and then really soak it to the 18 wheelers. This is where the greatest demand is and of course the greatest profit! This hurts us all as transportation cost of vital neccesities effects the economy. This all happened a good 25 years before China. I am not a Tractor Trailer Operator.

    Twenty-five to fifty years from now you will be proven correct, and then all those people who are facing downscaling of their lifestyles will be screaming, "Why didn't the government warn us back in 2006?" Well, all the signs were there, people just chose to ignore them.


    I was thinking that puting a wind-mill for generating electricity at the home would be a good idea, I bet it would cost some $$$$ though, create your own not have to pay the power co. that would be fine ( what would you do with the mill in a hurricane though?
     
  17. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priusenvy @ Apr 16 2006, 03:30 PM) [snapback]240563[/snapback]</div>
    Try ten to fifteen years (five-ten years for prices to rise, five more for people to accept why). OPEC is already saying they won't increase their production unless there is "guaranteed demand" for higher production. Demand is there, but this is their way of not increasing demand without saying they don't have the capacity for it. (Were there enough negatives in that sentence?)
    Kuwait already dropped their stated proven reserves by 50%, Saudi Arabia is saying they aren't responsible for increasing production whenever somebody needs more oil, it is up to others, including the U.S. to use it more efficiently (they really said all that). The warning signs are here now, but the mass media is turning a blind eye.
    Pretty soon it will be like acid rain. Unknown before, then all the rage, then forgotten. But this one won't likely be forgotten. PBS is focussing on global warming (watch Nova tonight), Time magazine. Watch the others pick up that issue, then they'll move on to peak oil, unfortunately the only solution we have of reducing the worst of global warming.

    nerfer
     
  18. storm petrol

    storm petrol Junior Member

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    I like Cameron's sentiment about government acting as a balance to industry. If the government was really by and for the interests of the people, as the Constitution indicates, you might expect a moderation of the devastating effects of industrialized civilization to be the result.

    Unfortunately, corporations gained the full rights of persons under US judicial rulings in the latter part of the 19th century. Consider the possibility that, for the most part, the US government is now merely the shadow puppet of corporate interests. Government by and for the corporation. The government has become, in to some degree, a convenient scapegoat for those of us who think that it still is as the Founding Fathers intended. We can blame it for our problems. What it has become is a sort of economic transducer, drawing wealth from wage earners and passing much of it to the military-industrial-congressional complex to be rendered into weapons, profit and power. It is also a political transducer where the industrial representatives now write the laws that favor their industries. And not just by virtue of the K Street crew passing monetary incentives to those who write the laws. In the US House, the actual writing of the laws is being done by corporate men that have been substituted for many of the staffers that used to be employed there.

    However, there are many ways for each of us to vote, to participate in changing this.

    This may be done both at the ballot box and the cash register. Each of us makes a myriad of choices each day. If we act together in a considerate and mindful manner, the overall effect of each of these choices can be reinforced by many others. Much of humanity's selfishly directed but otherwise relatively aimless behavior is rapidly rendering this beautiful place into the true emptiness found in bulging bank accounts.

    Please try to imagine what can be accomplished with focused, directed choices aimed at understanding our situation and ameliorating the damage that is being done.

    And if it can be done as easily, as painlessly as choosing to drive a Prius, well, that seems to be a good thing...

    storm petrol
     
  19. Salsawonder

    Salsawonder New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(storm petrol @ Apr 19 2006, 07:36 PM) [snapback]242444[/snapback]</div>
    Very well put. It should be interesting to see what the oil companies post for their next quarter profits.
     
  20. Mystery Squid

    Mystery Squid New Member

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    You know, for many years, gas prices remained so stable (relatively anyway, like up and down a few cents every now and then), one barely noticed.

    I just find it very hard to believe, that all of a sudden, within the last year or two:

    1. the supply has "suddenly", more or less, equaled demand, and refining capacity is at maximum, or close to it,

    2. the Chinese just "suddenly" decided to get off their asses and start growing/requiring more fuel (I would imagine on a nation-wide level, this sort of thing is rather slow and ramps up over time, or the government has somehow loosened the reins in some manner resulting in some sort of growth spur),

    3. the hurricane Katrina excuse. Hurricanes pound the Gulf all the time, was our oil infrastructure in that area sooo poor that one big hurricane was able to cause such disruption?

    Couple of months back Exxon had like record quarterly profits, and now this 400MM thing?

    Hmm, I think there's something going on here... I seriously suspect artificial market manipulation going on somewhere by someone or some group... :ph34r:

    Down with fossil fuels I say....
     
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