Why are so many people Anti-microsoft?

:lol:

I wonder if Maytrix knew this is the sort of topic that has the potential to ignite serious flame wars... :lol:

Actually, I WAS in the tech field (supported about 110+ locations for a major retailer), and build my own PC's (just finished building a bad nice person gaming one back in April)... For the MY usage parameters, MSFT rocks. I only use it for store bought video games, the Office suite, and burning/converting mp3's, and that's about it. I rarely have had any issues with XP since it came out in what, '01?

Now, I have heard, and I'm inclined to believe it, that for stuff like photo editing, making videos, generally more "hardcore" multimedia applications, that MAC kicks nice person, but I have no need for such things...

In my experience, I've found those that bitch about MSFT without good reason, usually have tons of crap/viruses/spyware, etc. on their computers, and don't care to learn enough about how to prevent crap like that, are computer illiterate, or just don't care...

 

THis is true... in fact IE7 will disable ActiveX by default, and it will be an opt-in policy.

 

One of my points was that computers today still demand so much of their users, and that most computer users today expect their computer to fail, as if it was some sort of inevitability...

Most of the average computer users I know have come to accept that computers just plum crap out eventually... they just get slower and slower naturally.

Even the most experienced computer engineers and computer scientists I know, when they use Windows, admit that they have a regular cycle of reinstalling Windows XP every 3 to 6 months to get around "windows rot" and to keep everything fresh. Is that the same with you, Squid, or have you been running the same Windows XP installation since 2001?

Now part of this is the user's fault for being ignorant, but I consider this a massive design flaw as well...

The system is too error prone, and you can't lay all of the blame in front of the end user or the evil malware purveyors... the people who design the system with so many openings that are not obvious to the average user to close are at fault too.

It's insufficient to say that "i'm smarter than the average computer user, so i don't have to worry about spyware, so Microsoft is awesome"...

 

LaughingMan, to use your ecosystem anaology... punctuated equilibrium my good man. Currently there aren't a lot of practicle devices on the plate for human/computer interaction. That'll change and when it does it will be big and probably more "natural" in the same way that a GUI is more natural than xterm/command line interaction via the keyboard.

Even though I develop on windoze all of my work pretty much is in the open souce world. PHP, MySQL, etc... Windows is a decent OS, at least for the casual user. Mas OS X seems really cool but Mac has suffered from being bound to a specific hardware. The reason for MS success is the deals it's brokered with the computer retailers (Dell and Co.). That breeds familiarity. That's why IE is so prevalent. It used to be the best browser. Netscape was wiped out because netscape 4.x sucked. Also, IE was coming on strong. Now the tables have turned. Firefox is the better browser. IE is stagnant. MS got lazy. Unfortunately, since MS controls the OS most folks will never get expoosed to Firefox. That's where MS is a problem. Producing mediocre software because they can get away with it. Eventually they'll probably get burned by it.

 

Squid, I think you did fall off your bike after all.
First you state you don't want to spend time fixing problems and figuerig things out, but then you complain that Mac is too easy and just gives you Yes or No and that's it. That shouldn't be an issue according to your philosophy as it cuts down on how much you have to figure out on your own. So what's wrong with that? Then you say that Windows at least gives you error codes to chase down. You said you abhor spending times working out problems. So why would you be so happy about error codes. Wth? Have you considered the fact that Mac doesn't give you error codes to chase down because there are not many errors?

Ohh and I highly doubt that a person interested in general market video games and the Office Suite knows what "BAD_POOL_CALLER" means. I am sure they thank Microsoft for giving them that code as this helps them in accomplishing their tasks.

 

The SAME one, with all the updates thereafter of course. However, technically, there were 2 re-installs because of new PC's that I've built since. As for what the most "experienced computer engineers and scientists" do, I truly take that with a grain of salt. Of course, one might imagine they might do more than just play video games and use MS Office, and are more likley to use applications that haven't had an army of software engineers working on it. Furthermore, that's the first I've heard of that concept, and I know my share of computer engineers, scientists, programmers, code "guru's", and software testers...

I'm just telling it like it is. I've never had any serious malady since XP. Again, I have a very specific use for my pc, and take the time to uninstall crap I don't use, frequently run virus/spyware scans, and am behind two firewalls. Not that it "guarantees" a trouble free PC, but I think people would be rather SURPRISED as just how much simple pc "cleanliness" and maintenance will keep it "running good".

 

i have to agree 100%. i dont like microsoft and lets do a scenario. in the 60's when Toyota was trying to break into the american market, GM went to the government and lobbied for trade restrictions against japanese car companies and succeeded resulting in a very very low quota that could be imported to the US and eventually creating an outright ban.

i sit here fat and happy in my gas guzzling gmc pickup because it hasnt broken down on my yet and its nearly the end of the month. having never known anything better, i say gm is the best!! sure they have their problems that dont seem to get addressed and yes Toyota is a much much better product but Toyota doesnt have any dealers in the US and its a real hassle to get a car and im not even sure what one looks like because they are so rare.

i then sigh wistfully thinking maybe "buying microsoft on"... OH, i mean GM because everyone else did and there are thousands of gm dealers around and millions of parts stores (thank goodness since breakdowns are so frequent its great that replacement parts abound)

now some may argue that microsoft is the biggest because they are the best... oh now i feel ill...thought i could stomach typing that... apparently not. but imm, they have done what ever they could to make sure that we never found out how good Toyota, or DR DOS, or Netscape, or Linux, or OS2 or .... sorry out of time

 

B)

That right, I don't. The only real problems I've had, were a resultant of my own doings, not the operating systems fault. Like installing stuff without really reading the manual, a sort of shooting-from-the-hip, and other odds and ends. I admit, I don't want to spend 3 f'ing hours reading a manual cover to cover when chances are, I'll be successful on my own, and have been, most of the time. B)

The MAC reference was the result of angst trying to get a friend's Powerbook to connect to my wireless home network, as I recall, there weren't a lot of options available to configure, I don't recall the specifics, but I just remember it's simplicity was a pain in the nice person in that respect, and in another that had something to do with m4a's and mp3's, and the back and fourth conversion thereof...

You're right, they don't. However, should they be faced with that message, they grab another PC and go look it up on this thing called the INTERNET, and work it from there...

 

We are microsoft, resistance is futile. You will be
assimulated.

 

connecting to a wireless network on a Mac?? i do have the latest version of Tiger so that helps but to say its difficult on a Mac... no...sorry cant buy that.

 

Fine don't... :lol: It's coming back to me now... It had to do with either WPA or WEP, I remember that it wouldn't let me enter in a key of the right length, and there was seemingly no way around it...

 

It sounds like he needed to update his airport drivers, that is all.

 

oh password...ok then in that case when you click on the airport symbol, select "other" there is gives options for encryption.

i will say one thing for a Mac, the commands are different than Windows and on that note, i dont feel that either OS is more intuitive than the other. i know it was there only because i looked at all the options just to see what is there.

and i do agree with your method that jumping in and winging it is most definitely better than spending 3 hours to read the 3 paragraphs of text you need.

 

You're clearly running in a best case scenario. Good for you. I have a gaming PC that sit next to my Mac and besides some driver conflicts occasionally when I update video drivers or something, it does not have any problems... it's got virus protection, and is behind my NAT.

But i only use that machine for one purpose... to play games.

But you see... what you consider simple PC "cleanliness" is way out of the league for the vast majority of PC users out there... that's partly their fault, but you can't expect every joe shmoe to protect his PC he just brought home from circuit city with a NAT, two firewalls, and even know where to begin with virus protection and spyware protection if it's his first computer...

The fact is, that many PCs out there run completely exposed. When I referred to computer engineers and scientists that i know, i knew them back in college when they were all effectively plugged into the campus network... needless to say, that network was not very healthy... I remember at least a half dozen serious virus and worm outbreaks that crippled my school's network... affecting Windows PCs of course..

The fact is that even though you and I are safe behind our protected networks and with the amount of knowledge about this stuff, most people wouldn't know what to begin, and just want to use their computer like a Toaster...

Even setting up a network isn't straightforward to some people... so don't even think about stuff like a firewall, or enabling WEP or WPA on a wireless network...

A big part of the problem is ignorance, I agree...

But the deeper issue here is that computers are inherently hard to use, and hard to maintain... and for a lot of people, what you would consider simple measures like having a firewall, having anti-virus, and updating for security patches... it's out of their league.

And my point is that Microsoft is in part responsible for the complexity of computers, and how helpless some people are to their machine when things go bad.

 

Yeah, well, I didn't know that, he didn't know that, and he had just bought the Powerbook earlier that day, so he didn't know too much about Mac's either. I at least had a sense of where to go look. One might think a new MAC might have had the latest airport drivers (assuming that was indeed the issue, and I believe it now that I think about it), as the "standard" key length in question had been such for quite some time...

So much for the "idiot-proof" pull out of the box and it all "works" concept.... :lol:

And that's only one example. Again, I'm just a Window's guy because I'm relatively familiar with it, it has served/serves me well, and is the most universal OS out there. I love the fact my digital camera and various mp3 players simply plug into the USB and are recognized and "set up".

Another dimension is that I just don't have the time, effort, or computer will power, to explore another OS. I admit, I'm just not that interested/motivated, and I'm sure it's people like me that keep MSFT King of the Hill. Admittedly, a couple of times I've thought of getting a MAC just for kicks, even came close to buying that dippy little $500 system just to check it out, etc. Then I thought, "Why?", as my needs are sufficiently met with MSFT, I'd be tossing out $500, in addition to all the time I would spend getting to know the Mac... Sorry, but I'm not into computers THAT much, and would rather spend that money in other ways...


h34r:

 

Going back to the topic, I highly encourage anyone who is interested to visit

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/nerdtv/player/?show=001&ext=mp4

and watch Cringley's interview with Andy Hertzfeld... especially when he talks about open source, and the state of the software industry...

Cue to 31:32 to get to the portion of the interview that talks about open source..

The gist of it is that because one company owns so much of the common platform, sometime in the 90s, it became the case that the owner of that platform was positioned at odds with both its consumers and its developers. The monopoly stifled innovation, and instead encouraged the status quo to keep itself perpetually relevant.

This was a blow to the software industry, and Hertzfeld argues that it's not healthy... but open source is key to making it healthy again for innovation.

He describes the way that it is now... Microsoft owning the OS and the underlying platform... as a feudal system, with Microsoft as the Lord and we (consumers and developers alike) are all serfs.

With open source, there is the possibility of breaking that.

 

Hm.. well the Mac is the same way. Plug in any camera or MP3 player and it is recognized. That's not unique to Windows.

Funny... the last camera I owned required me to hunt down a driver myself from Canon to set up on my XP laptop.

 

Hey, when you put it that way, I find it hard to disagree with anything you wrote. Maybe I am living in my own little world, and assumed only the "older folks" were dangerously computer illiterate. How far should MSFT go to make their OS "safer" for the average Joe? I can honestly say I don't know, but to blame it for everything isn't right either...

 

Oh yeah, you triggered some neurons, that's another thing I hated about MAC, they SHOVE ITunes up your nice person, and the default is m4a... all fine and dandy if you stay within the MAC regime... :angry:

 

Which is why I said partly to blame, not entirely.

There are things that Microsoft can do to make computing safer... for example, the user permissions model in XP. Default user is administrator level, opening a world of risk and danger, but restricted users in XP Pro makes it difficult to do many of the things that are important... Microsoft needs to revamp this, and yes, I do give them credit that this is one of the many points in security that they will address in Windows Vista.

But it almost seems like it's too little too late... Microsoft is guilty of jumping headfirst into a lot of technologies it has invented or decisions it has made wrt it's OS that were short sighted and resulted in spyware being very easy to stumble upon on the web, and worms able to burrow through networks without the user having to do anything about it.

I'm not saying that Microsoft is sitting still... they are making a concerted effort to turn it around, but they have lost my trust.


I've had to work in customer support for computer users (many of which were had an Ivy league education or were in the process of getting one) in a past life, and it's not just the older folks who are illiterate. Even people who know how to use their computers aren't as paranoid as they should be...