Why Did I Buy a Prime, Over a Leaf or Bolt?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by ClemsonSteve, May 9, 2018.

  1. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I think there is a clear distinction between an electrical outlet and a charging station. I admit, there are far more electric outlets near my house than gas stations, but there is not a single charging station listed within 50 mile radius of my house, using this site. PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You
     
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  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    There are far more outlets around my town than gas pumps.
    However, my main point was and is, I can charge my car in my garage. I haven't seen anyone suggest making a gas pump you can set up in a garage.

    Waking up to a full 'tank' every day is a wonderful feeling, I'll never go back
     
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  3. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I completely understand your point. I dream of being self sufficient for my own energy needs if I can. But that's not for everyone, at least not yet. Sadly.
     
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  4. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    Nope. "Charging Stations" are nothing more than glorified extension cords with adapters on the end for all L1 and L2 "chargers". My Leaf is exclusively charged via the L1 EVSE that came with the car, the "trickle charger". The actual charger is built into the car, and will accept any voltage from about 85VAC to 280VAC, and it will dial the current from 3A up. When the line voltage starts drooping it dials it down, until the max of 6.6KW is reached. On a 120VAC circuit like every normal NEMA 5-15P you see everywhere, it will dial it up to about 12A at 120VAC or about 1.4KW charge rate. On a 240VAC source, it will dial it up to just under 28A before limited by the onboard charger.

    The only charging stations that exist are L3, the DC stations. The charger is actually in the big box and a direct connection to the battery is made bypassing the internal onboard car charger.

    I charge my Leaf primarily at my house on L1 and at work using the L1 outlet attached to the streetpole.

    So no distinction needs to be made. Anywhere there is an outlet I can charge my Leaf. My Leaf rarely ever sees dedicated L2 installations listed on sites like plug-share. Again because it is not needed. Until you drive one the "not being able to charge it everywhere" argument is the loudest. That's what most people surveyed respond with when asked why not electric. But once you drive electric for some amount of time, you really don't care. Public charging is completely not needed for suburbia because everyone has a house. In urban environments it is needed on the street parking. Having quick charge L3 stations like Tesla Superchargers and CHAdeMO stations are great to allow for quick cross-country style travel, but the average person won't use them at all or maybe a bunch of times over a single 1-2 week period a year.
     
  5. ClemsonSteve

    ClemsonSteve Active Member

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    Hear, hear!
     
  6. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I know that distinction. What I am saying is that not all the electric outlets are freely open to public for charging EV (for free or with fees).

    Just because there is an outlet, I would not park my car on someone's driveway and connect my cord to the outlet on the outside wall of stranger's house. I would not do that even if the outlet is on a public building. Unless it is clearly marked as publically available outlet for charging EV (i.e. charge station in my view). And there are no such outlets available within 50 miles of my house.
     
    #26 Salamander_King, May 10, 2018
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  7. ClemsonSteve

    ClemsonSteve Active Member

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    I routinely drive my Prime past the EV range, and then 650 miles later have to stop at one of a plethora of gas stations to fill up. You on the other hand don't, because you are limited to a couple hundred miles and you are toast.

    Many times we decide to turn a small trip into a larger one--like hit a winery in Virginia that's another 300 miles round trip--you usually don't have that option--we always do :)

    Your list above is somewhat of a fantasy--and 100% exaggeration and rationalization. Extremely rare that stopping for gas makes me late for a meeting. Perhaps I just plan better for the 3 minutes it takes me to fill up--gas stations are plentiful after all. And if I'm going to a meeting, it's never the case that I wear tennis shoes LOL.

    Pumping gas and avoiding spilling it--just about the same as chewing gum and walking. Sending money out of the economy for a "gas purchase" = supporting those who kill American troops is a ridiculous statement. The world is economically interdependent--and it's never clear exactly where the gas comes from that I'm pumping into my car (or for the parts that went into making the car for that matter)--I think the USA is now a world leader in oil production. So if I don't buy USA oil, coal or natural gas, and pay those taxes--I'm not supporting the Federal Government and our brave troops. BTW--I am a USAF veteran and served proudly in the Middle East during the Gulf War--I spent 8 months in desert tents. I have no issues whatsoever with anyone who buys gas to fuel whatever.
     
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  8. Susan4ET

    Susan4ET Member

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    Not a bother for me because I'm hybrid. Was just expanding on the scenarios...
     
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  9. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    It takes me longer than 3 minutes just to get the gas station to start pumping from inserting the card to dino flowing. That's assuming the gas station is on my way, there isn't a line at the station, and that it works.
     
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  10. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I didn't ask how often you drive past the EV range, how often do you drive it to within 3 miles of having zero gas left?
    Most people never do, because they either plan ahead (painfully simple with gas stations) or fill up with gas once they reach a quarter tank (for some it is a half tank, others maybe wait till they get a blinking alert).
    EVs are the same, except many people start with a full 'tank' every day.

    I have never not been able to take any side trip I wanted to. Yes, there are scenarios you can create that would make it difficult, but I haven't run into one in eight years.

    My list was not fantasy, they are all facts. Many from personal experience.
    And thank you for your service. I regret our government sent you to the gulf for the primary purpose of 'calming' the oil producing region.
    As for paying taxes, please don't go there, you have no idea how many taxes I pay.
    Almost half our oil comes from outside the country. Little of it actually comes from the Middle East, but that doesn't mean I feel better about only giving enemies of our nation enough money to buy a few bullets to shoot at our soldiers, rather than a whole bunch.

    I feel passionate about the harm gasoline does to children, adults, our economy and national security. I understand if you don't recognize those dangers, and that fine. But since I do believe in the harm caused, can you blame me for wanting to do less harm?
     
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  11. ClemsonSteve

    ClemsonSteve Active Member

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    I never get within 3 miles of running out of gas--because there's a gas station on every corner. Unfortunately that's not the case with charging stations in the United States, especially in North Carolina. That's what makes your comparison faulty. And it's hard for me to believe that the limited range has never prevented you from taking a trip on a whim. But what I can say is that we take those kinds of trips all the time--and for me, that's what makes the ICE a requirement.

    I can tell that we are on different sides of the political spectrum--and I'm ok with that. Agree to disagree is a wonderful thing!
     
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  12. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Where I often drive, that isn't true of gasoline stations either. But then, my driving is nowhere near North Carolina:

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]

    From my perspective, gasoline vs electric fuel planning is not qualitatively different, as both fuels can be quite sparsely available. They are quantitatively different in that BEV ranges are shorter than today's gasoline vehicles. But my first gasoline car, back in the 1970s, wouldn't go any farther on a single fill-up than today's Teslas, so I already learned how to look ahead in planning for refills. If I could figure it out back then, I have no good reason to say that it is any harder now.

    Specifically for me, a PHEV is a far better choice than a BEV. But most people don't drive at all in places as sparsely served as illustrated above, instead staying within areas where electric refueling is much easier and more available than any fuel where I drive. Thus, if I could safely manage my fuel supply out in those remote boonies, they should be no less able to manage their electric supply in urban and suburban areas..
     
    #32 fuzzy1, May 10, 2018
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  13. PCPrime

    PCPrime Member

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    The point is if you are stranded at night in the wild, middle of nowhere, you just enjoy the starry starry night in LA. But you'll become an icicle yourself overnight below zero temperature. You are not getting free ice-cream but free icicle for the wolves.
     
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  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Don't worry! With PRIME, when the gas gauge shows empty and warning light is lit and there is no remaining mile range left, there is still at least 1.5 -2 gal of gas left in the tank. If you drive conservatively, you can easily make 100 miles with what's left in the tank. I drove my PRIME with gas gauge showing empty and drive range showing ----miles for 60 miles on an interstate till the first gas station I found. When I pulled into the gas station, the car took only 10.238gal to fill up, meaning there was at least another gallon of gas still left in the tank. For your first three cases, you will most likely to be OK if your empty light has not come-on yet. For the last case with 163 miles to next gas station, if it's near empty, you might want to fill up there. ;)
    IMG_20170827_201336-COLLAGE.jpg
     
  15. ClemsonSteve

    ClemsonSteve Active Member

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    LMAO!
     
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  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    My brother from another mother.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  17. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Out west here, some people already do that nearly every winter with gasoline-fueled vehicles. Remember C-net's James Kim? He wasn't the first, nor the last, merely the best known victim.

    One of my points in other threads is that when traveling out in the wild middle of nowhere, there are also plenty of non-fuel reasons that cause strandings. Be prepared to spend the night camping inside the car, and be equipped to hike out over the next couple days. EV vs. gasoline is not a material change to this.

    BTW, wolves have never been caught opening closed car doors, only Yosemite National Park bears do that. And while wolves are slowly repopulating the PNW region, they haven't yet reached most of it.

    Only in good conditions, as your Prime is not materially different than my Gen3 Liftback in that regard. But ALL of those signs are in areas prone to having heavy precipitation accumulate on the roads during icicle season, enough so to seriously sap MPG and prevent even 2 gallons in a Prime from being enough to get through. Or even halt forward progress altogether and force a turnaround.

    The several times I've driven through, the Saskatchewan Crossing location was open 24 hours, but a Canadian reader remembered a time when it was not. The next service is quite a ways beyond that, and his gasoline-fueled motorcycle didn't make it.
    That's all??? Bob has intentionally run his cars completely out many times. I've intentionally run my Gen3 significantly lower than than. And my Forester completely out.

    On the later, I had originally planned to run out and use a spare fuel jug I brought along, but then wimped out at the start of the longest no-fuel stretch and pulled into the very last pump. The engine died of fuel starvation just as I opened up my fuel logbook. On a 15.9 gallon rating, it took a 15.926 gallon refill.
     
    #37 fuzzy1, May 11, 2018
    Last edited: May 11, 2018
  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yes, yes, I know... famous Bob has already chimed in on this. LOL
    Then again, mine was not intentional. I just happen to be on a stretch of highway without convenient place to stop for gas. However, I always drove my Gen3 until the empty light came on to minimize number of trips I had to make to a gas station, so I knew PRIME would be no different.
     
    #38 Salamander_King, May 11, 2018
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  19. 2k1Toaster

    2k1Toaster Brand New Prius Batteries

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    With a vehicle that gets 1/3rd at best the range of what he has, the Leaf hasn't prevented any whismical travels. We have literally showed up at the the airport, asked where the next few flights out are going and booked that. I earn Southwest's companion pass every year, and I don't travel for work. It's all personal leisure travel.

    I've driven around North Carolina and yes there are boonies, but it is a pretty heavily populated area. And again, you don't need to charge anywhere but home most of the time. It just works out.

    exactly. For some cases, a PHEV is a much better solution. But most people don't live there. I was just up in the Yukon and they have only just recently, within the past year, opened up the Dempster highway fuel point to everyone 24/7. You still have to pay through a funny booth and know how to operate an actual gasoline pump, not just the stations with the buttons and screens, but big metal levers and switches that need to be thrown in the right order and sequence for the proper juice to come out. In the past you had to drive an hour North to fill up in Dawson just to drive back down South again to get on the highway. Then you have about 230 miles until the next "city" (population 8, yes just 8 in the winter) where there is a tire shop and gas station, then you're on your own again for another few hundred miles.

    A BEV is a terrible choice for Yukon winter driving if going through the boonies. However those 8 people in Eagle View probably won't be getting a BEV anytime soon. For most people that live in urban and suburban areas, a BEV is perfect. Those that travel a fair amount, a PHEV or HEV is the next best choice. But a lot of people make the excuse that a BEV won't work when it absolutely will.

    P_20180326_151518_vHDR_On_HP.jpg
    P_20180326_151559_vHDR_On_HP.jpg

    But guess what? There was a 240VAC outlet on the pole for use by whoever wanted to...

    In a BEV you can keep the heater on if stranded in a snow storm. In any vehicle with an ICE, you cannot. That's stranded in a snow storm 101. The snow covers the exhaust pipe, and then you die from monoxide poisoning.
     
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  20. PCPrime

    PCPrime Member

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    You are stranded because you run out of battery, how do you keep the heater on?
     
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