Why does God NEVER answer the prayers of amputees?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Mar 15 2007, 07:59 PM) [snapback]406405[/snapback]</div>

I really don't think he was, in any way, poking fun at amputees.

While his question may seem like bait, I think I understand why he asked it. And it does cause one to think for a bit...then out comes the standard answer of "God always answers prayers; you may just not like the answer." I am not casting judgment on the truth of that statement, btw.

After all, you can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you just might find you get what you need.

 

Great Song!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Lywyllyn @ Mar 15 2007, 09:29 PM) [snapback]406454[/snapback]</div>

Thanks! Trying for a little levity here...

 

God always answers prayer, or so it is believed by Christians. Your answer can be yes, no, or wait. The question I think you are really asking is "Why dosen't God ever answer 'yes' to amputees?"

My personal answer is who are we to demand God explain himself to us? God will do whatever he wants to do. Just because we think something would be the best, most compassionate thing to do, dosen't mean God will agree. Remember, Christians believe God is omnicient. There is no possible way a finite human could claim to understand a situation better then an omnicient being.

Secondly, in general, Christians believe they will recieve a new body in heaven, which will last, without degridation, for eternity. God's solution for amputees could simply be to guide them to a contentment to wait the few decades for the permanent body.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Mar, 09:19 PM) [snapback]406448[/snapback]</div>

I disagree 100%. The original question, which was a crude attempt to denigrate ones religious beliefs, did indeed cross the line by humiliating amputees. The question posed the idea that somehow the Pope, God, Allah, or whom or whatever, somehow posses the magical ability to regrow an amputees limb if one prays "real hard". Really cute. Ask the same question to an amputee and I sure you'll really make his/her day... Yeah, real funny...

Amputee's are not all Republicans or Democrats, Conservatives or Liberals, AGW believers or non-believers. There people just like you and me who have been dealt a bad card and must adapt with their disability. I know two people personally who are amputees by traumatic injury. I could never imagine even remotely asking such a question to one of them.

As I stated before, if burritos's original question asked why God never gives me my lucky lotto numbers, I would not have even given the post another thought.

It was a dumb post and I now have a much different opinion of burritos. Almost similar to another poster on this board, who shall remain unnamed, throws up obvious baits (religious, AGW, etc.), gets no replies, and then tries to argue with him/herself.

Rick
#4 2006

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 15 2007, 03:26 PM) [snapback]406346[/snapback]</div>

Possibility #1: God does answer their prayers. The answer is always NO. Why? Because he hates them. If he didn't hate them he would not have made them amputees in the first place.

Possibility #2: You are mistaken that amputees always pray for their limbs to be restored. Maybe they always pray for grapefruit for breakfast, and god grants their prayer as often as he answers the prayers of other people.

Possibility #3: You are mistaken that god answers the prayers of cancer sufferers and other ill people. Maybe those stories are all lies.

Possibility #4 (the most likely of all): There is no god. As in #3 above, stories of answered prayers are all lies.

Possibility #5: The Flying Spaghetti Monster actually does restore the limbs of amputees, but he doesn't want the rest of us to know it, so he makes them appear still to be amputees to the rest of us. Unlike Jahwe, the FSM has sense of humor!

... The above list is not meant to be complete. There are bound to be other logically-consistent (if not always logical) possible answers to your question.

And FWIW, I think the original question is an excellent example of how the theory of the invisible man in the sky fails to explain the world around us. If there were a god, and if he was really in the habit of granting miraculous cures, and if such cures were meant both to help the individual and to serve as evidence of his love and power, then restoring the limbs of amputees would be an excellent way to accomplish both.

Some folks may not like Burritos' Socratic method of asking questions whose answers are obvious. That's because the obvious answer is "Religion makes no sense."

Bravo Burritos! I think sometimes your questions fall short. But this time you've hit one square on target!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Mar 15 2007, 10:08 PM) [snapback]406484[/snapback]</div>

My senior year in high school, I dated a guy who had lost his arm to a hunting accident at the age of 12. I had no problems asking him if he felt that God had not listened to him about losing an arm. We talked about it at length, btw, during the year or so we dated.

The question came from other posts that talked about praying for this disease to be cured, or for that condition to be healed. Many folks with strong religious beliefs believe that, if they pray hard enough, those things may happen. I think his original question, while coming off as a bit curt or tongue-in-cheek, was a legitimate query--and if not posted in the spirit of legitimacy, could bring out a legitimate conversation. Which it did. I think he has his answer now...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 15 2007, 06:09 PM) [snapback]406444[/snapback]</div>

I'm more than suggesting it, I'm asserting it. It's only my opinion, to be sure, and subject to scientific disproof just as much as any other opinion, such as the opinion that prayers are granted. My opinion in this case has the weight of observational evidence to support it; the other opinion hasn't got anything but wishful hope behind it.

"Coincidence" connotes "improbable." Where we err in our assessment of coincidence is in the true degree of improbability. We think it improbable that if one prays for a cancer to recede, and it DOES recede, that the prayer and the remission had a high improbability of being "coincident." But such a view fails to take all factors into account. Given the general prevalence of religious belief, there's an extremely high likelihood than any cancer will be prayed for, by several people. ANY cancer that goes into remission will most likely have had prayer directed against it. So there's hardly anything remarkably "coincident" about a prayed for cancer receding. Next, cancer is treated aggressively by medical practice, and with greater success as new therapies are brought into the pharmacopaea. With some cancers, the likelihood of remission is better than fifty-fifty, especially if the cancer is detected early. So, again, the degree of improbability that a prayed for cancer will recede vanishes to insignificance when the full picture is considered, and there's no good reason to assume supernatural intervention in such an ordinary, everyday event.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

Here's my take.

God gives you what you need, not what you want. I do this with my kids. They see a toy in the store. They instantly want it. I see that it is poorly made and will break within a few days. I don't get it for them. Yeah, they feel they can't live without it, but I know better. Then they say, "Daddy, I'm hungry," and we get something to eat. I get the food for them because that is something they need.

I could pray for a billion dollars, but chances are I won't get it because He knows I don't need it. If someone loses a foot and you don't get a new one, it is because God feels you don't need it.

I think this was a good question. Why doesn't God answer prayers the way I want has been a question for many many years.

Anyhow, that's how I see it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Mar 15 2007, 07:59 PM) [snapback]406405[/snapback]</div>

Whoa. I think you missed the purpose of the question. I think the amputee was used as an example because of the extreme and obvious nature of the disability. I don't believe burritos was poking fun at amputees, nor was he extolling the virtues of spitting on maimed soldiers (that's where YOU took this, not the OP). I interpreted the question as a valid one: if people who's cancer suddenly disappeared claim this was done because their prayers were answered, then, accepting that at least some portion of amputees believe in and pray to god, why has a missing limb not returned? This assumes a lot, i.e., that the cancer victims were truly cured by prayer and not medicine, that the amputee is praying for the return of a missing limb, etc..

It's a mental exercise, an opening for a theological debate, and most likely an insight into burritos thought son religion.

 

I have to think that the vast majority of God's interventions in the affairs of mankind are done through intermediaries - angels if you will. The same way Satan accomplishes his goals through demonic activity. Whether or not God is all-powerful, all-present, and all-knowing is largely unimportant. Even if God is all this and more, He chose throughout the Bible to intervene in human affairs through varied means.

Back to the topic at hand (no pun intended), the healing of a minor ailment could be carried out by angelic influence as charged/authorized by God. The re-growth or replacement of a limb might be something that is out of the spiritual ability of an angel. This type of healing might be better classified as a miracle to performed directly by God, or, if we are to take the Bible as our template, more likely through the Son of God Himself through his direct presence or appearance.

As to the question of why miracles of this type as well as interventions by God in the affairs of mankind on a Biblical scale have not been widely observed in modern history is unanswerable. I assume, however, we all have an answer in our minds that suits our own personal belief system.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 15 2007, 02:26 PM) [snapback]406346[/snapback]</div>

Nicely done. Did you know of George Bernard Shaw's famous Lourdes quotation before you formed this question? Shaw quipped that he saw plenty of crutches outside the famous shrine, but no wooden legs. Very close to your challenge.

There are relatively few miracles mentioned in the Bible, and none of them are such that they would convince a skeptic. A virgin birth? Says who? The mother! Ha! Water into wine ... wasn't this after the party was already drunk? Pretty good trick, I think. Lazarus raised from the dead? He was comatose, and came to just as the sunlight reentered the tomb (such incidents were not unheard of). Resurrection? All we have is an empty tomb, and a cave full of nothin' solves nothin'.

Miracles in the Bible don't seem geared to convincing skeptics.

We can infer that they aren't to ease human suffering either ... its estimated by some that Jesus would have passed by the beggar healed by Peter in Acts 3:6 several times while on earth, yet his healing was delayed for a later date. And there were plenty of people sick and suffering all around Jesus. Paul himself says that he asked for healing for a physical ailment, but did not receive it. So if miracles are there to ease suffering, Jesus has failed.

I have my own standard for what I'll call a miracle ... I accept all the ones in the Bible, for instance ... but rarely believe that people who have cancer disappear are really the recipients of a physical healing (cancers do go away spontaneously, even without prayers for a miracle). So I have a very high standard for declaring something a miracle, but I'll accept anyone's belief that God has blessed them, and join in their joy, because I really don't know.

Underlying the question is the question of pain; if God can perform miracles, why doesn't he intervene to stop all the bad acts in the world? I don't really know, but I do reflect sometimes on when I had an aquarium. I was "god" of that world, in a sense, and could intervene at will. But it caused a disruption, stressing the fish every time I placed my hand in the tank, stirring up the muck under the gravel. Sometimes it was necessary, but I did it only when absolutely necessary. And I'm sure the fish never knew my reasons, or my purposes.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 15 2007, 03:26 PM) [snapback]406346[/snapback]</div>

God doesn't wait for the limb to be lost He saves the limb before that becomes necessary. Sometimes He waits all the way until the operating table where He saves it through a combination of His Grace and the skill He gives a good surgeon. The rest He says no too. There are many more saved in this manner than lost each year, Praise God for His love and Grace.

Still seeking reassurance that there is no God through baiting and inflammatory posts that you hope will garner supporting replies?

God Bless

Wildkow

p.s. He doesn't want to buy our love He wants it freely given this world is only for a short while the next is forever. Without a firm rejection of this world and total acceptance He can not assure us that we won't slip and rebel against His ways. If you like this world and would rather not spend eternity in a perfect enviroment then so be it. He won't force you.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 15 2007, 05:38 PM) [snapback]406427[/snapback]</div>

Nope. . .

Mat 10:14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, as ye go forth out of that house or that city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Mar 15 2007, 09:15 PM) [snapback]406488[/snapback]</div>

Possibility #6: Limbs are necessary for successful praying. Could it be that the physics of successful prayer transmission require four intact limbs, two feet, and two arms?

I didn't see this post as a denigration of amputees, but as a thought provoker. Thought provoking questions are bothersome only to those who can't or choose not to think in the provoked direction.

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 15 2007, 05:26 PM) [snapback]406346[/snapback]</div>

I guess by this point the whole discussion of this being a loaded question has been dealt with. Even with an inflamitory purpose, your question is poorly worded.

I will assume you mean to ask why God never seemingly grows back the limb of someone who's lost one rather than what you asked.

You won't have to go far to find someone who's lost a limb that will tell you that God has answered their prayer time and time again. Their disability often causes them to be more in need than their counterparts who have not lost a limb, and I can only guess how many times these people would tell you that only by the grace of God did their circumstances (ability to escape or avoid a harmful situation, financial need, etc..) was answered prayer.

Why doesn't God just grow back the limb? He can, and any good God would do it if He were really good, wouldn't He? Our immediate happiness is God's primary goal in the focus of eternity, right? I say no... That God would be one of your creation. Fake God, made up for your selfish ambition. At some point on this forum, hopefully we will discover that God is who He is, not who popular opinnion says "God should be". He knows the hearts of people and that it's a more complex situation than you or I make it out to be.

It is more likely someone with a disability, missing limb, or significant reason to lean on God will spend their life more closely to God than someone who's got everything nice and comfy. I'm sure there are even people on here who run to God when the crisis comes, spend plenty of time focused on the things of God and in closer relationship until the storm passes. Once the sun comes out and things brighten up, that lost job is now a new job with better pay and a company car... All of a sudden that round of golf replaces that hour of prayer. We fade away on God in the good times, or at least most honest believers would say they do.

Often people who have a disability will end up in support of others with similar conditions. This often allows the believer living with the disability to share their faith with a non-believer with the disability. Many people would proclaim "Thank God for the missing arm or I would have never met Sally who introduced me to God"

Joni Ericson Tada and her disability has been the best example of what I am saying here that I can think of.

She'd love to wake up, take a shower and be off to work at something, especially if she could walk there. Shoot, I'd love to see her walk across a stage and give a talk. God's been with her all these years through her circumstances and so much has been done through her message and story that would not have been done if God had healed her injury or prevented it in the first place.

The other part where all of humanity goes wrong is when we worship the miracle and not the God of the miracle. Far too often you'll find more people following the person who's missing arm grew back overnight than reflecting on the God of the universe who did it. If it weren't for the rest of us being stupid about it, maybe God would be in the business of restoring a missing limb.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Mar 15 2007, 06:26 PM) [snapback]406346[/snapback]</div>

In a way he/she does. What used to be a fatal wound in now not as life threatening. The disease processes that used to lead to amputation also had a high mortality rate - not true today. What used to be a horrible and permanent disability is now treated with prosthetic devices that more and more act like the "real thing". In a way the technology needed has been transferred. The technology for performing amputations has also dramatically improved making it less painful and with lower morbity and mortality rates.

I dont think God can answer everyone's prayers. I dont think he/she is meant too. Faith however can be and often is a powerful force in peoples lives for good, for healing, for hope - i do not understand why you continue to attack it and demean it. If you choose not to believe in God - so be it, that is your choice. If others choose to believe in God that is their choice - either way I would advise you to keep your opinions to yourself about your own sets of beliefs or non-beliefs.

 

Do amputees pray for natural limbs to grow back?
Some of them get artificial limbs and use them for the fullest extent.

I am personally not a believer in God, but for a faithful follower, this may be the answer to their prayers.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ZenCruiser @ Mar 16 2007, 12:40 AM) [snapback]406580[/snapback]</div>

When I read the question I knew exactly what the purpose of it was. It was a crude and juvenile attempt to open a theological debate by using amputees as the whipping post. Just downright cruel, misguided, and pointless. How can one argue the converse? Burritos only used the plight of amputees to increase the shock value of his question at their expense. Nice...

The question on a whole was pointless as mentioned above. A theological debate?? Please, give me a break. Go into any church, synagogue, mosque, announce during a packed service of worshipers that your god or leader is full of it because he/it cannot/will not regrow the limbs of amputees. I'm sure you'll win a lot of converts to atheism on the spot... (or perhaps be beheaded on the spot!).

Want to start a theological debate. Fine. As an agnostic I have found it a complete waste of time to argue the existence or non existence of a God or some supernatural force within the universe.

As you grow older in life (and study your history) you realize many theological debates end up in shouting matches, wars, and murders. But if you are still intent on doing so, don't unnecessarily drag the plight of an amputee into your debate. There are thousands of other examples which would serve as a much better starting point for your question.


Rick
#4 2006