Why does the Gen3 hybrid battery fail more than in the Gen2?

no argument, i have very little technical skill, and i respect your knowledge. but i don't believe you can predict the future. and again, the o/p is asking about the present.
i answered his question with as much knowledge of the present defect rate as anyone, which is almost zero.
i haven't seen anyone post facts or data supporting the o/p's assertion.

 

No, these fans are pretty big, about 6 or 8 inches across. A fine layer of dust or grit won't affect them; it takes a giant wad of hair to clog them. Most people won't encounter that and everyone I know who's cleaned these fans has found them to be very clean.

 

What evidence do you have that the Gen 3 batteries have a shorter lifespan than Gen 2's? How many failed batteries do you base that on?

 

Maybe the PIP fans are bigger? I recall pictures: there's a couple on the PIP, and they do look substantial. I've cleaned our (reg Prius) fan a couple of times, the (single) squirrel cage itself is maybe the size of a fist?

 

Did you remove any meaningful amount of debris? Because, I think these fans aren't prone to clogging and they don't need cleaning, unless you transport long-haired or shedding animals in your car.

 

Just minor dust. But hey, I've got 64,000 kms on this car and I've cleaned the fan twice, lol. We've just in the last year or two adopted a Shiba Inu who occasionally is in the car, so maybe next time there'll be a bit more, will see.

I've got a piece of window screen material tucked in behind the fan inlet grill, too. Basically to catch large particles, but not restrict flow to speak of.

 

Well, if you read it on the internet it must be true!

It's lack of data backing this lower IR idea which has led me to question if it is indeed fact. I've only seen it stated that it is a thing, period. Your hands-on opinion here is the most data I've seen either way and it reinforces my belief that I won't actually have to eat bisco's hat. The fact that bad Gen 3 modules are cooked worse than Gen 2 is telling, IMO.

So say Toyota actually has built the Gen 3 battery modules with lower IR. This would let it deliver higher current at lower temp, allowing heavier battery use than Gen 2 while possibly yielding a similar service life. If there isn't actually any difference between the two, there leaves little doubt that Gen 3 battery service life will likely be less than Gen 2. IMO, no reasonably perceptive driver who has driven both generations would argue that Gen 3's battery is used more aggressively. I can see where Toyota could chase higher MPG's with heavier battery use and still provide a very acceptable service life. They may feel they could have easily sold 2 Prii to any Gen 2 owner who has logged 3 or 400k miles on the original battery and that with Gen 3, bringing battery life down some is good business. No doubt they engineered Gen's 3 to easily reach 10/150 under their "typical" usage standard, anyway, so for the majority of owners it's a non-issue. This is all speculation for sure and I hope none of it is misconstrued as rumor or innuendo. I've maintained an all Toyota family fleet since 93'. I'm not a basher, I'm hard core Toyota.

If Brad and Brian are saying bad Gen 3 modules are cooked worse than bad Gen 2 modules, you can't see that being a sound platform from which to "predict the future"?.. They are indeed seeing Gen 3 failures, though not in significant numbers yet. To say you answered the o/p's question with as much knowledge of defect rate as 2 Prius battery rebuilders is questionable, IMO.

 

I think I heard gen 3 modules can be used in 2nd gen packs? Which could mean: they're physically more-or-less identical, but maybe in 3rd gen pack they're worked harder, due to different software or other components in the 3rd gen pack?

(Putting question marks on the end of every sentence, you may note, lol.)

 

again, the o/p is stating that there are currently more gen 3 failure's than gen 2. why is everyone trying so hard to read something else into that.
i'm not denying the possibility that gen 3 batteries are less robust, but i still haven't seen any evidence supporting the o/p's statement.

 

Yes,
The outside appearance of Gen 2 and Gen 3 modules is identical. They both have two sets of cell interconnections while the Gen I had just one set of connections. I do not know if the there are differences in the internal structure or chemistry of the cells. It is possible to identify a modules generation from the date code in the serial number.

A gen 3 car is harder on it's battery than a gen 2. Camry's and Lexus are tough on batteries also. Knowing that you are going to get a crappy worn out core is a big deal for rebuilders.

Mendel,
None of this means you should be overly concerned about your 2010 battery. Your car is still young and Vancouver, BC is about the best climate a battery could live in.

Brad

 

What do you expect from a vehicle that has a higher lifetime cost than a Hummer?

 

There's a chance that the o/p didn't pose the question as a troll. Although he (or anyone) is likely never going to bring Toyota Corporate stamped battery failure data to his thread, it is possible that Gen 3 batteries are out-failing Gen 2 in his region. It's also possible that it's just his perception based on what he's seeing. Maybe he's a complete troll. Whatever. There is some evidence that this is not beyond the realm of possibility, especially in harsh driving conditions areas. Do we really need verifiable evidence to question a car part on a car forum?

I don't think anyone is saying Gen 3 batteries are less robust. It's that they may not be MORE robust and are getting hammered more in Gen 3 application than in Gen 2.

 

i never stated that o/p was, or might be a troll. o/p asked a question, received several answers to the question, then, someone jumped all over the replies saying they should be 'disliked'.

then in post #26, the thread took a turn to the theoretical, and current battery observations, and after that, the o/p's question became moot, or possibly, 'what might happen in the future'.

i just didn't get caught up in all that, and tried to stay with the original intent of the thread.

unfortunately, o/p has not returned to defend or clarify the original question, and we're left fighting amonst ourselves, as is so often the case.

finally, of course it is fair game to question a car part, but why not start a new thread, to reduce confusion?

 

LOL. You could, if you want. Just clean your Prius battery fan and put the hair in a box. Then you can shampoo anytime you want.

 

"The truth is what I tell you." (c) Barak Obama 2010. (c) Donald Trump 2016 (c) Adolf Hitler 1943

I perceive that perception may be unreliable. But to the one who experienced battery failure on a Gen 3, it is the truth that battery failure is a very high percentage. After all, 100% of his/her batteries have failed. And if he/she had two friends with Gen 2s, one with a failed battery and one without a failure, the rate of failure is 50% (or a 100 percent increase). I love statistics. If I am careful, I can lie at will and still be telling the truth.

 

How hot does it get in Sri Lanka? How does it compare to say, Dallas TX?
Dallas TX Average Temperatures by Month - Current Results

 

I do have some screen shots and documentation I've done with TS and my other charging/discharging stuff. I will try to gather what I did and post here when I have more time. As a matter of fact, I'm headed out the door to replace another G3 battery today. If you will tell me exactly what you would like to see as evidence, I will do my best to provide it. I also have several modules that failed in a 2010 battery I did awhile back. If you would like to look at them yourself, I could send them to you.

 

Anything can fail. They made millions of Prius cars, so to make the statement that Gen III batteries have a higher failure rate than Gen II batteries, you'd need enough data to have the rates. Your data are anecdotal. I'm not trying to put you down, it's just not enough cars to reach a conclusion, that's all.

 

eventually, they are all going to fail. and since they made more gen 3's than 2's, what more evidence do you need?

 

Gen2 batteries last 9-11 years whereas 2010 Gen3s are failing at 6.