Why doesn't a Prime or other 110V charge EV not have ONLY a normal 110V inlet plug as best option?

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by The Big Sleaze, Jan 2, 2021.

  1. The Big Sleaze

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    Yeah, I guess, but just seems like one of the times when a little extra in the initial design would been real easy, and now we've got a much less than ideal system that will be hard, and squirrely, to improve to standard levels of consumer convenience.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how hard would it be to pull the female jack, internalize it into the car along with the evse, and fasten the male plug where the female used to be.
    easy peasy for a good mcguyver
     
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Most people have how nice the Toyota unit actually is. They simply have no basis of comparison available. After getting an opportunity to compare other designs, let us know what you think.
     
  4. The Big Sleaze

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    I notice Toyota, and I assume other EVs, say to plug in the cable to 110v first, then plug into car. I assume that powers up the cable's safety regime so it wont send any juice to the car's plug unless everything checks out.

    So I'm wondering what would happen if you plug into car first, then plug into 110v, basically simulating a system where the cable's guts and safety device is part of the car, and you are just taking standard extension cable to the car. Will the cable not work unless plugged in in the proper sequence? Will you get some error message?
     
  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    Of course, these plugs and cords are designed over safety first. You don't want to be electrocuted while charging your car or you don't want your garage or car to go up in flames. Do you realize the power that is going through that cord? It is not a light bulb that you're plugging in, and even that can be dangerous if safety precautions are not followed.
     
  6. The Big Sleaze

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    thats what I'm thinking, but does EVSE need to be plugged into 110V first. I guess normal household 110V could be plugged in first then reach inside to new mounting in rear cargo to plug female end of EVSE into car. Still two things to plug in, but still much better than stock setup because the fancy stuff stays inside the car where it belongs and only your external generic extension cord is outside.
     
  7. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    It will work fine. No error message. There are people who use a smart plug to turn on and off the power at the wall recepticle to start and stop the charging. The situation you described is basically the same thing. Cutting off the power at the wall while everything else is connected.
     
  8. Hicksite

    Hicksite Member

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    Why did you buy a Prime?
     
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  9. The Big Sleaze

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    really, my impression of EE fundamentals would have me believe that even small increase in wire temp and related increase in resistance are very easy to detect and that is what makes electronic thermometers so cheap and accurate, and that could be used to shut down or scale back charging. Maybe that wouldn't work with juice coming from "the grid" and no drop due to resistance would be seen?

    But I'm still not seeing a reason why charging a car, which will be well engineered to be self limiting to what a normal cheap house system can handle, assuming that same outlet is not also tasked with running a big home office, etc, is a huge bigger safety issue than people casually overloading an outlet as happens all day every day with ganged power-strips.
     
  10. The Big Sleaze

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    Not for wall charging. Everything else. :).

    Radar cruise, EV mode in bumper to bumper traffic to avoid idling an ICE endlessly. EV mode for creeping silently in nature. Batt powered engine off 8hrs of HVAC. Long lasting and low maintenance. Big back seat. EV ability but still unlimited gas range. Govt Money Rebate, and last but not least unlike many I think THIS version looks pretty cool.

    Main thing was Radar and with Govt money back AFAIK it was cheapest car with Radar, and other cheaper cars with Radar didn't have the reputation for reliability or EV modes, so it was a no brainer.
     
  11. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    I think you were right in the first post. You don't understand the basics of electricity.

    As for your quest to have an intelligent extension cord... All you have to do is find an extension cord that has a smart drill that will penetrate the drywall and locate the wires that feed the plug. Then it can deploy a robot to attach a thermocouple to the wire and another a few feet away so that it can tell what the temperature rise is.

    Of course, if the wire is Romex, in a conduit or armored all bets are off.

    And you thought that a J1772 connection was expensive. Sheesh
     
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  12. The Big Sleaze

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    good to hear.

    On my list for radical electric system mods are:

    1)extra battery standing vertically in rear seat foot well and secured by rear seat belts.
    2)JDM big batt powered 110/220v power outlet.
    3)internalize charging plug and plug standard extension cord into car "directly".
     
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Just my experience. Plugging and unplugging the female receptacle of the Kill-a-watt that is connected to the OEM L1 male nema 5-15 plug is a lot harder than plugging and unplugging the J1772 connector at the charge port. I really don't get what you are complaining about.
     
  14. JimboPalmer

    JimboPalmer Tsar of all the Rushers

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    Your household outlet (NEMA 5-15) is very unsafe compared to the J1772 plug. So you want to plug in the unsafe plug first, while no electric current is flowing. (Also the J1772 system may realize you are being foolish and disable the connection until everything is powered down and unplugged, and that would just irritate you that you weren't allowed to electrocute yourself)

    Please put it in your Will that the car MUST be destroyed, so it does not kill again?
     
    #34 JimboPalmer, Jan 2, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
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  15. Old Bear

    Old Bear Senior Member

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    That "monster mutant cord thingy" is an EVSE -- electric vehicle supply equipment. It is the "concierge" for the charging circuit contained within your vehicle. It is based on a very well thought out standard called J1772 which assures that the cord from the EVSE to the vehicle is not energized until it recognizes that it's connected to the vehicle and the vehicle is asking for power. That way, if you drop the connector end into a puddle, because it's not connected to the vehicle, you won't get electrocuted.

    The connector itself is designed to withstand being driven over which is probably a good thing, especially for public charging stations where some thoughtless people just drop the cord on the ground when done.

    The J1772 connector is designed to lock into the car. I'm not sure which version of the Prime you own, but the Prime has the option of not locking the cord, locking the cord until your keyfob is near the car, or locking the cord until the Prime is fully charged.

    This is a pretty active discussion group and, since the first Prime appeared in 2017, I don't think I've seen many comments about EVSE charging cords being vandalized or stolen. I'm sure it happens but I think you're at higher risk for having a wayward shopping cart do several hundreds of dollars damage by crashing into your vehicle. My bigger concern has always been having someone trip of the cord if I plug it into an outlet in a public place.

    Given electric rates where I live, there is virtually no cost saving for using electricity vs gasoline for fuel. There is, however, some advantages of electric operation such as not having to warm up the engine for short trips, lower maintenance costs, smoother driving without transmission shift points, etc. And, of course, there are some environment benefits -- but those might be offset by the water pollution from your having to wash you hands after handing the charging cord.

    There is. The Prime can be set at a lower charging current. However, the purpose of this setting is to allow using an outlet which may be on a shared circuit with other devices and cannot deliver full current without tripping its circuit breaker.

    Yes, Google Maps can display the location of various charging stations. Some are free (merchants and motels provide them just like free parking spaces) and some cost money to use. ChargePoint dominates the market but the fees, if any, are set by the 'owner' of the location. Hence, you may find free ChargePoint stations at some businesses while various fees may apply elsewhere.

    ChargePoint has its own billing system where you are given a small keychain card which contains an RFID chip. Your ChargePoint account is linked to a credit card. But you don't need to that if you don't want because you can just use any credit card which contains an RFID chip. (Credit cards with RFID chips have a symbol printed on them that looks like a WiFi symbol.)

    There are several standards but the J1772 is dominant in the US at the moment. (Tesla has its own standard which is not compatible.)

    Another excellent source of information about the location, type and rates of charging stations is PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You

    -- -- --

    Not sure why you have a Prime given your comments. Suggest you forget it has plug-in capabilities and just drive it as a gasoline powered car. You'll be happier and less stressed.
     
    #35 Old Bear, Jan 2, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
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  16. The Big Sleaze

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    Having to manually roll up an awkward cord with a big lump near one end. 49 out of 50 people when rolling up a cord will twist it, putting all sorts of stress and wear on the cord. Rolling up cord correctly is a chore and only a few rare people with high end audio tech exp. will do it, and either way you get dirty.
    If I'm dealing with cords I want to use one of these. Best $8 you can spend if dealing with any cords over 10ft.
    Bayco KW-110 Cord Storage Reel
    Says 100ft but figure it will take about 50ft of heavy duty car charging cord. Then put it in a large $3 reusable grocery sack to keep car interior clean.
     
    #36 The Big Sleaze, Jan 2, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  17. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    Sleaze, keep in mind that EVERY power reel requires that you completely uncoil the cord when using more than a small fraction of it's rated capacity. This is due to heat buildup within the reel when all the conductors are buried under all those coils. I was reminded of this when my air compressor drew enough current to melt the insulation within my retractable cord reel.

    Dan
     
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  18. The Big Sleaze

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    Thats pretty much what I do. I've only charged it about 3x at home. I was mostly wondering why the cable scheme is so awkward and special, and if there was some physics reasons. Seems its mostly just the guys who wrote the spec for the standard weren't trying to optimize convenience for consumers but were thinking more along the lines of legal/safety. Industrial construction site electric man-lifts and forklifts all have simple male plugs, under a little spring door, that except standard female household or 110 twistlock, and its all fully automatic. You plug it in and a red light comes on to show it charging, turning green when fully charged. You just use any normal good cord. No muss, no fuss. Forget various specs but IIRC many have over 500lbs of batts and charge in about 6-10 hours. Naturally, they get plugged and unplugged in all sorts of weather and no one has ever mentioned the plugging in as a safety issue. Maybe they have some extra heavy weight system (more weight is good on the base of a manlift or forklift) that wouldn't be such a good thing on a Prime where they are fighting for pounds to increase MPG.
     
    #38 The Big Sleaze, Jan 2, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2021
  19. The Big Sleaze

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    I've asked electricians about that and they say with cords with fairly thick insulation (like even cheap outdoor rated cords) and the fairly loose and random spooling that its "not really an issue" with spools such as Balco. But I guess it would be something to be aware of if running 12amps on a 15amp cord all night. I've run 4x500watt work lights all (hot) day with about 85ft of 100ft of cheap cord still spooled and no issues for weeks on end.
     
  20. pghyndman

    pghyndman Active Member

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    AMEN... We will ALL be happier!
     
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