Why Don't Cops/Swat Teams Storm the Shooter?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 20 2007, 08:03 AM) [snapback]426629[/snapback]</div>

They didn't waste any time in the case of Virginia Tech:

9:45 a.m.
The VT PD received a 911 call of a shooting at Norris Hall, which contains faculty offices, classrooms, and laboratories. VT PD and Blacksburg PD immediately responded to Norris Hall. Notice in leadership command center via our police rep of a shooting in Norris.

Upon arrival to Norris Hall, the officers found the front doors barricaded. Within a minute, the officers breached the doors, which had been chained shut from the inside.

Once inside the building, the officers heard gunshots. They followed the succession of gunshots to the second floor. Just as the officers reached the second floor, the gunshots stopped.

The officers discovered the gunman, who had taken his own life. There was never any engagement between the responding officers and the gunman.

http://www.vt.edu/tragedy/timeline.php

 

Squid, how do you decide one life over another? How do you order men into such a situation?

For the sake of argument, lets say one of those SWAT officers was also taking night classes in biology, and should he survive he'll find a cure for cancer. He storms in and stops the shooter with his life, saving the lives of 10 pot heads with no future. Is it worth it?

In the VT incident, from what i read, the cops did everything they could. When they got to the scene, they did storm into the building, and make their way up to the floor where the shooter was, but not before he killed himself.

Tell me, If you heard gunshots coming from somewhere in your office, would you "rally the troops" and charge at the gunman to try to take him down? Or would you instead run and hide?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 20 2007, 09:03 AM) [snapback]426629[/snapback]</div>

I agree with you and i realize that the response time was excellent. they also followed the wrong lead - sucks.

I would consider prepositioning SWAT teams / armed response teams on or near large college campuses or other environs like that. i also like a siren concept in addition to the rapid response email, and cell phone notification - a siren goes off when a shooting takes place and alerts EVERYONE except the deaf (who would be alerted by the masses of people running for cover and hopefully taking them with them) - gives them a heads up so they can head for cover or to get their own sidearms.

 

There's a difference between taking on a dangerous job and throwing your life away. SWAT teams are trained for situations like this. They're trained in proper procedures and actions with a goal of resolving the situation and preserving their lives. They don't run foolishly into a situation knowing that a few of them won't make it - instead they create a situation and a plan that has a reasonable expectation of success and survival of all members.

Got a link for that cell phone vid? I haven't seen it yet

 

Probably a back up team, or individuals directed to secure the perimeter. Without a video of the front door, there really isn't much you can say about what was going on

 

I dont work swat nor would I want to......

They are very well trained, They do have procedures they must follow. Most Campus police do not have a swat team and must rely on other agencies for swat.

You have responce times, building layouts, ect. (if someone baracades them selves in that too adds to the mix.. Is the barracade booby trapped or possibly a gun man watching the area? ect.

As I understand it at first it appeard to be an isolated incident (ie the first shooting) then when the 2nd happend they realised there was a more immeadiate issue. and possibly more than one shooter across campus.

I heard on the radio, they have arrested others linked to the incident..

Each department has different procedures for different situations..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Apr 20 2007, 08:48 AM) [snapback]426654[/snapback]</div>

You have no idea how the men and women of the US Military and Law Enforcement sacrifice themselves for people like you..

I would charge the gunman.. I'm a sheep dog.. you're a sheep.. the gunman is the wolf. It's ok for you to be a sheep, because there will always be people like me to save your scared liberal butt.

 

Did anyone see the video that the Vtech student recorded on his cellphone? I am guessing they were the Vtech "police," but they were just basically standing around!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 20 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]426754[/snapback]</div>

LOL, in case you didn't notice - let me remind you that he is going in defense of the cops/swat teams. Learn2read. And think.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 20 2007, 10:47 AM) [snapback]426754[/snapback]</div>

(voice = heavy reverb) It's the adventures of Neocon Tough Guy!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 20 2007, 10:47 AM) [snapback]426754[/snapback]</div>

1. Read
2. Comprehend.
3. Reply.

Is that so hard? i didn't say anything about their sacrifices. In fact, i was standing up for their actions. by all accounts i heard, they did a great job of responding quickly and handling the situation as they knew it.

I never said what i would do in such a situation - you're making an assumption that, because i'm a liberal, i would run and hide. Fine assumption for you, but assumptions don't always reflect the truth of the matter.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Apr 20 2007, 12:07 PM) [snapback]426771[/snapback]</div>

I have to admit THAT was FUNNY!! :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Apr 20 2007, 09:07 AM) [snapback]426771[/snapback]</div>

It could happen. <_< :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 20 2007, 11:47 AM) [snapback]426754[/snapback]</div>

You say this kind of stuff all the time, but I know you're not a policeman (even though you indicated that you worked with them in the past), and I don't think you're in the Armed Services, so what the f are you talking about? I know you like to come across as a mercenary, but come on...

You have made it clear in other posts that you would only charge if you had a gun. That without that piece of metal, no one has capability of doing anything to ever stop anyone to do anything. I would like to think that you would have charged someone like Cho, even if you didn't have one.

And as I've said before, I don't need you to save me, and I'm not scared nor am I a sheep. However, the way you always promote fear in all of your posts--how we should be scared of the government, scared of the boogie man around the corner, scared of someone breaking in our house, etc., etc., it seems to me that, in fact, you're the one that's a big ol' quaking scaredy-pants. Or the one with a scared libertarian butt. However you want to say it.

And, btw, I think everyone in this situation did what they had to do, and did what they could, and the Tech Campus Police and the Blacksburg SWAT and EMTs should all be lauded. There's only one person to blame, and that was Cho. There may be an institution that deserves criticism, but it's NOT Virginia Polytechnic Institute and SU.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Apr 20 2007, 11:10 AM) [snapback]426774[/snapback]</div>

FIrst of all, you misunderstood my comparison. You were asking why would the Officers risk their lives to save 10 hippies. This is why I explained that you have no idea about the sacrifices of our LE and Military. Of course they would risk their lives to save 10 pot heads.. Thats what they do, every day, is risk their lives to keep people safe. When everyone is running away from the maniac, LE runs towards them.

Perhaps YOU should not make the assumption that I was ragging on you because you asked such a silly question.. I was just pointing out that Officers risk their lives everyday. For someone to think that they wouldnt risk their lives for 10 pot heads.. well, that is why I told you you must not be aware of the sacrifices and risks they come across everyday.

... and frankly, I'm not assuming that you would run and hide. I know you would run and hide. You, along with the rest of your gun-grabbing liberal friends.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 20 2007, 12:55 PM) [snapback]426852[/snapback]</div>

Yes, of course. All liberals always run and hide. Like the hippy-looking french teacher who was shot trying to block the door to her class. Gimme a break.

No one knows what he/she would do in this kind of situation until they're in it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 20 2007, 12:44 PM) [snapback]426839[/snapback]</div>

You are the sheep. You don't want to admit that there is a wolf.. To you, I look like a wolf, but I'm the sheep dog. The sheep see the sheep dog, they see his fangs and hear his growl so they think he's the wolf. The sheep don't realize that the sheep dog would put his life on the line to keep them safe.. and that's fine, being a sheep dog is a thankless job.

The sheep, they just live in their happy little worlds.. they don't see the evil, they don't even want to admit there is evil.. If something bad happens, they blame themselves.

I never said the we should be scared of the government. I said the government should be scared of us.. maybe they wouldn't be pulling so much of the BS that do if you weren't all a bunch of complacent little liberal weanies.

You may think I'm scared, but I'm not scared.. I'm prepared and aware. You are right, I have worked w/ the Police. I have seen the wolves. They're out there. It's people like you that always called us to come save them from the wolf..

PS.. 1 in 3 Americans own at LEAST 1 gun.. so any stereotypical, knuckle-dragging redneck name calling is completely inaccurate.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MegansPrius @ Apr 20 2007, 01:00 PM) [snapback]426857[/snapback]</div>

Well, you're trying to run away from Iraq..

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 20 2007, 12:55 PM) [snapback]426852[/snapback]</div>

You've a very narrow vision, constantly stereotyping and judging people. You've imposed upon yourself a great disservice.

On topic, I'm pretty assured that these folks don't simply storm a shooter as they have to analyze each and every circumstance individually. They probably handle a perp that has hostages differently than one that doesn't. I'm sure many variables come into play and that they rely on their training to get them through each scenario to ensure the least amount of deaths resulting from their actions.