Why Don't Cops/Swat Teams Storm the Shooter?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Apr 20 2007, 11:07 AM) [snapback]426771[/snapback]</div>

I'm not a tough guy. Nor am I a NeoCon.. I'm not a Republican either..

I'm simply a guy that knows that there are a lot of bad people out there. They come in all forms.. Some are like Cho, rampant blood thirsty killers.. others are like you, snide little liberals with some sick anti-American agenda.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Apr 20 2007, 01:04 PM) [snapback]426863[/snapback]</div>

I call it like I see it. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck.. it's probably a duck.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mirza @ Apr 20 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]426756[/snapback]</div>

No one said he isn't.. When someone asks some stupid question about why the cops would put their lives on the line for 10 pot heads.. well.. think about it.

 

Frankly, according to the guy who shot the cell phone video, it sounds like the arrival of the police led to the gunman's death (i.e., they arrived, he killed himself). And it doesn't really sound like they were wasting any time:

Jamal Azim Albarghouti, another student, aimed his cellphone camera at the police as they rushed toward Norris. He recorded the sounds of 27 bullets, apparently from both police and the man inside.

"I saw many police — many, many," he said. "In the few yards, there were more than 20 police around there, and they were trying to get in. They were the police. I assumed they knew what they were doing."

He added: "They dropped a gas bomb — a tear gas bomb or something — at the building, and I think they were shooting at him too."
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/na...-home-headlines

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 20 2007, 02:04 PM) [snapback]426860[/snapback]</div>

I could say that I'm Angelina Jolie, but that doesn't make it so. You have the strangest, self-important, narcissistic view of yourself that is laughable. And sad. And yes, scary in that it makes you appear a little "off."

To me, you don't sound like a wolf or a sheep dog (and let me clarify for you--you can quote some other crazy guy's personal manifesto all you want, you're still not a canine of any sort). You sound like a wannabe that never quite made it.

Being prepared is a great thing. Being scared all the time so that you have to hide behind guns and some weird bloodlust is not a great thing--it's just not healthy.

I'm incredibly prepared and know that I'm safe as any of us are at any time--including the gun owners.

And, if I remember correctly, isn't a common police motto "to protect and serve?" You're saying that's a myth? I do think that police are here to do both, AND each of us has a responsibility to not do stupid sh$% that'll make us wind up hurt or dead. For instance, there are some really bad parts of Richmond that I would never willingly walk in, day or night, by myself. However, if I was driving through, and my car broke down, I would expect to be able to call for a police officer to assist me. That's protecting.

 

Ignorance at its finest.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 20 2007, 08:27 PM) [snapback]427102[/snapback]</div>

A wanna be? What is laughable is that you have NO idea who I am or what I do. I'm not trying to impress you, or anyone else. To me, you sound like a spoiled little girl that lacks conviction and moral. To me, you sound like a stupid liberal with your head in the sand.

Blood lust? Killing someone is the LAST thing I'd want to do, ever. See, that is where you are confused.. someone that would put themselves in harms way to stop a bad person doesn't have a blood lust. I do have the capacity for violence, but I would never harm someone without absolutely having to.

You're incredibly prepared.. right.. with your baseball bat or your tazer (that you haven't spoken of since a few people other than myself told you you're completely delusional if you think you can defend yourself in your home with one)..

Great job, waste the Police Officers time w/ changing your tire. Forget about the CRIME goign on.. little miss liberal can't even change her own tire!

Maybe you should call AAA for that, the Police aren't you personal servants. If an Officer changes your tire you tell him THANK YOU, because he damn well doesn't have to. Again, your attitude plays into the spoiled little liberal stereotype. You would "EXPECT" the Police Officer to help you.. *shakes head*

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 20 2007, 06:29 AM) [snapback]426695[/snapback]</div>

You can make this claim from the comfort of your room, secure in the knowledge that there was one shooter. The people on the ground don't have any idea what's going on, how many shooters there are, what kind of booby-traps there are, etc. They did know they were dealing with a volatile situation, as the doors were chained shut. They didn't really know if they were dealing with a single nut, or a group of David Koresh followers with machine guns that could have mowed them down.

The real question to ask yourself is what you would do. Would you be like Prof Liviu Librescu, or would you react like most people do and huddle for cover?

Questioning the bravery of these men and equating their supposed inaction on any kind of level with the degenerate actions of the killer is grotesque and immoral.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 20 2007, 01:12 PM) [snapback]426868[/snapback]</div>

I call it like I see it. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck.. it's probably a duck.

I'm simply a guy that knows that there are a lot of bad people out there. They come in all forms.. Some are like Cho, rampant blood thirsty killers.. others are like you, snide little neocons with some sick anti-American agenda.

 

Law Enforcement is under no duty or obligation to risk their lives. They do it because that is the type of people they are and God Bless them all. That goes double for teachers like Prof Liviu Librescu, Virginial Tech needs to put up something big for that guy.

Wildkow

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Apr 21 2007, 03:18 AM) [snapback]427233[/snapback]</div>

That's straight out of an article like this:
http://www.gunowners.org/fs9902.htm

And check out the sponsor... coincidence?

The only police officer I know does not share your view. At times, that role requires an obligation to risk her life because "protect and serve" is her mission statement. And when protecting, one can be risking her life. That's part of the job, and why, IMHO, people like me hold police officers in high esteem.

Maybe you have police officer friends who think differently; I know we've got one or two on this board. I would like to know their thoughts.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(desynch @ Apr 20 2007, 11:18 PM) [snapback]427143[/snapback]</div>

I would never call a cop to change my tire. Are you a total imbecile? I would call in this instance to ask for a a little assistance (even if it's just a police car pulled behind mine) from those who may see a disabled car and think that's a great opportunity to rob/rape/maim/whatever. I can change my own damn tire, and would never allow a police officer to do it for me--I hold them in esteem, and they're not my personal lackey. However, calling one in this example is being smart and safe. If you read about a woman who got out of her car to change a tire in a bad area of town, and ended up getting shot for it, I guarantee you would say she was stupid. I would. The only excuse would be lack of a cell phone.

Spoiled? Lessee, raised in the mountains of Appalachia at a sub-poverty level, was one of four people in my graduating class of 53 to go away to college, worked 2-3 jobs at a time to put myself through Virginia Tech (combined with a lot of studying for scholarships), and worked retail managment for 50-70 hours a week to reach a level of middle class never before seen in my family? Yep, I'm spoiled all right. Would that we would all have it SO easy...rather, I'm an independent, very determined, extremely capable female with "Mayberry, RFD" one generation behind me. It seems that you have never had to deal with one of these type of females. In your comments, you've indicated that you think all women need protecting from the big "wolves" of the world, need that big strong man to change tires for her, etc. And when she says "no, thank you," you ridicule. So not only do you seem to be a narcissistic delusional paranoid, but a misogynist as well.

And it's "Taser," and you've apparently never looked at/researched/used one. I'm not delusional, and neither are the police departments across this country that have instituted them as part of their arsenal.

And as far as the wannabe statement, I stand by it. You're not a police officer, you're not military... you don't protect anyone except yourself and your own intense paranoia.

Now, excuse me while I take my son fishing (something I've done since I was knee-high to a grasshopper...and not once have we ever used a gun to do it. Of course, we also keep our catch and cook it with butter). Of course, I'm sure you'll ridicule me for this, too. Guess what? Not only do I change tires and fish, I also build decks, do electrical work, paint, landscape, do light masonry, woodwork, and replace roofs. Gasp...the level of "spoiled" is astounding! I don't know how to sew, though, but I'm working on it.




<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 21 2007, 12:44 PM) [snapback]427312[/snapback]</div>

Yes. Thank you for providing this example.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 21 2007, 11:39 AM) [snapback]427310[/snapback]</div>

Woah, I'm going to have to disagree with Livelychick and agree with the Kow here - I think that's a first!

Yes, it's in a police officer's job description to get into risky situations all the time. HOWEVER, there's a difference between "risky" and "needlessly suicidal". Storming a building with unknown shooter(s) with just your standard police gear qualifies as the latter.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Stev0 @ Apr 21 2007, 01:21 PM) [snapback]427336[/snapback]</div>

No, no, no, that's not what I meant. I don't think a PO has any reason to be needlessly suicidal, either--they also have an obligation to themselves, right? However, they do put themselves out there in risky situations to enforce the law and protect citizens. Kow said they were under "no" obligation or duty to risk their lives. I don't agree with that statement.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 21 2007, 12:27 PM) [snapback]427339[/snapback]</div>

Oh, yeah, I agree with you there...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 21 2007, 12:07 PM) [snapback]427323[/snapback]</div>

Oh, I see.. you're too much of a coward to protect yourself so you rely on someone ELSE with a GUN to do it for you.

Carry on.. coward.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 21 2007, 10:54 PM) [snapback]427578[/snapback]</div>

I wonder if they can. It seems that they (Police or SWAT) were trying to get in, the doors were chained, but then they got in anyway. I'm sure they can resurrect a timeline from when the authorities got to the scene, but how many minutes went by before that happened? I've read that witnesses to such events are notoriously and understandably not able to put together a timeline. I would have to imagine that any witnesses account of time would be out of whack--stressful situations that take only a couple of seconds can seem as if they're an interminable amount of time...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Apr 21 2007, 09:39 AM) [snapback]427310[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Apr 21 2007, 09:44 AM) [snapback]427312[/snapback]</div>

Semantics does play a part but the issue is a little more than just semantics. I know of no law, contract or court in the United States that will hold anyone under a legal , or otherwise, duty or obligation to risk their lives. At most in some states you will find a “public duty†doctrine, that doctrine says: police owe a duty to protect the public in general, but not to protect any particular individual, this is a protection duty not to include endangering your life for another. I stand by what I said regardless of what other PO's say, they do insane things like running into burning buildings, facing armed criminals because it is their nature to protect and serve. God Bless them all.

Wildkow

p.s. No Livelychick it’s not “. . . straight out of an article like this:
http://www.gunowners.org/fs9902.htm†I read the article quickly so perhaps I missed it. Can you specify in the article you linked why you assume this to be true?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Mystery Squid @ Apr 21 2007, 08:06 PM) [snapback]427586[/snapback]</div>

It was a 9mm Glock Model 19 and some type of .22 cal. pistol. I have heard that 100 +/- rounds were fired and if these facts are accurate, HolyKow! this was one cold calculating methodical killer. It only takes one bullet to kill you and if this guy was able to kill 32 well then I'm glad the cops didn't just rush-in as he could have taken them out and thus the rest of the students in the classrooms or building would have been at risk.

Wildkow