Why Gas is Going Up

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ May 5 2006, 12:11 PM) [snapback]250303[/snapback]</div>

Shell's CEO Mr. Jeroen van der Veer said today: "There is more than 100 billion dollars on speculative capital in the oil market."

 

Prices dropped this week. Or at least today. It was $2.83 at the beginning of the week and I saw several stations today at $2.77.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Whitestar @ May 5 2006, 11:17 AM) [snapback]250308[/snapback]</div>

In Denver prices have remained flat. $2.79/gal for the cheap stuff. I would guess that it has more to do with PR than economics, though there has been some appearent disruption caused by the switch over from MTBE to ethanol as the oxygenate of choice.

 

Somehow this topic reminded me of Tom the Dancing Bug.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(tripp @ May 5 2006, 10:11 AM) [snapback]250303[/snapback]</div>

I agree with alot of what you said, but if your last statement is true about supplies being limited, why must the oil companies take advantage and make even more than when supplies are abundant compared to demand?
Selling "more" for less should generate the same profit as selling less for more?... why must they make record profits when it already hurts?
All they will do in the long run "I hope" is cut thier own throats. But they are so cocky and arrogant "like GM" that they think that could never happen.

If I sell apples and normally sell 3 tons a month and supplies drop and demand goes up a bit, I have to raise the price of my apples.. I understand and so justified......
BUT... I shouldn't raise them above and beyond the amount needed to maintain my normal profit margin????
Why should I make even more when supplies are less?... I"m now making more money for less work?

I know they need to make a profit, but they have no heart for the people they serve.
They are only "like you said" following normal market protocol...... squeeze the life out of your customer until they stop breathing and only then let up the pressure till they regain and then do it again and again.

Don't take it personal if you work for the oil industry... we have learned to depend and even trust them..... why do you think we are so dependent upon them.... we trust they can maintain our new way of life and dependency.
But the oil companies are taking the road of rape and pillage when they no longer have any regard for thier market recipients.

Your right.. we should just quit complaining and so something about it.......
I intend to start building a business that will equip homeowners with thier own solar and or wind systems that will feed into the grid... that will be my tiny part to stop this nonsense.
I encourage as many others who have the knowledge to do the same.... together it will be much easier.

The oil companies are doing us a favor by raising the prices.. because until it hurts, no one will fund such projects.

I pray that many other entrepreneurs and businesses like Toyota will take the bold step to free the people.....
Start a Revolution baby!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aaf709 @ May 5 2006, 10:39 AM) [snapback]250327[/snapback]</div>

That cartoon talked about letting the market set the prices... normally thats the way its done, but somewhere there must be limits.
If you do business with a customer and he treats you right and raises prices slowly so it matches inflation and demand etc, thats ok, but if you do business with him for years and get to the point that you now need his product in order to live and he realizes his leverage and raises the profits to 10 times what he should make, then thats wrong.

Thats why loan sharks are not limited.... they take advantage of what the market will allow.
Thats why utility companies have limits. What would you do if they made it so your electric bill cost 1000 a month instead of 100? Would you pay it?.... Yes you would you have no choice....
True you would cut back to the point of making your life miserable but you have to use them.
They would then not need to make so much electricity because demand has dropped so... they make more profit for less electricity!.. A great business strategy?

The hype about saving this and that is just that!....

If we wanted more gas we would refine more gas. They are all lyers and thier definition of honest business is to "get all they can and can all they get".

Nothing more than greed.... yea I feel real sorry for them... they really need the extra money to get by...
Cheveron just made 4 billion dollars profit in thier last report.

All this is doing is making it so I will make all of my own power and drive for free as soon as plug in gets better.

I only encourage alternative power that is freely available to us all..... anything else will be controlled by greed and we will be no better off than we are now.

What happens to a toll bridge after we pay for it and its paid off free and clear.. do they let us drive across it for free.... Hell no!.. they sell it and use the money for whatever and the new owners pays off the bridge all over again at a much greater price, so the toll price continues forever?

What happens to our natural resourses like timber?.. Do they give it to us for free so we can build our houses?
Hell no!... they tax you for maintaining it, and then sell it and charge you to replant. The proceeds from the sell pays off other depts.

What happens to the Dam that finally gets paid off.. do they give you free electricity and charge just enough to pay thier employees for maintainence?.. Hell no!... they continue to charge what the market will bear.

Does it all come out in the wash?.. maybe.. but the bottom line is we keep paying forever.

What happened to propane, ethanol, bio?... all these things are proving to cost more than not doing them all all.
Until we can access what is given to us freely, the energy that no one can make a profit on, we will always be dependent upon greedy businessmen until that happens.

Nuclear is only good if you can access it without having to sell your firstborn.
Until then, we will just sell our arms and legs for gas.

If they charge you they will... and as much as you will pay.. thats the american way!

If you want free energy... access it from free sources that don't have to be transported, maintained, processed, canned, refined, ultrarefined, etc etc etc.... the more people involed in getting it to your house and car, the more you will pay..... the more middlemen you can take out, the less you will pay.. thats also the american way. Lets go for it.... What are we waiting for?

For you guys out there that are bored and want a cool hobby to play with.. go for alternative energy... turn your roof into a solar panel?... have any wasted space in your backyard.. go solar!...
Heat all your water with convection heaters on the roof.. they are cheap and very effecient.

It beats griping about it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(genalex @ May 1 2006, 01:43 AM) [snapback]247838[/snapback]</div>

I agree completely. And what your generation went thru in WWII gives me hope that we can once again step up to the plate and beat the peak oil thing. However, senior citizens are already well-represented in Congress so that's not the complete answer. Being pro-active is though, in fact that's essentially the whole advantage of having a government as opposed to only market forces.

The reason we've had price fluctuations these last couple months (but is 25% really considered "wild fluctuations"?) and other countries haven't is largely due to our refineries. Switching to ethanol from the groundwater-polluting MTBE is part of it, so is the normal switching from winter to summer blends. Other countries have different refinery processes.

I've seen some harebrained schemes being passed around by e-mail to lower gas prices - buying from only certain companies, a one-day boycott, or inversely buying just enough for each day's drive. They all ignore the only real answer - lower your consumption! Maybe big oil is taking advantage of the situation, but we're bending over and asking them for more! When we say "No, that's enough oil for me, thanks" then their situation will change in a hurry. Instead of blaming big oil, we need to look at ourselves and see what can be done.

nerfer

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ May 5 2006, 12:18 PM) [snapback]250357[/snapback]</div>

Hear him. Hear him. That's spot on.

Because that's how "free" markets work. When supply is tight the product (or commodity or whatever) goes to the highest bidder. The only way to drop the price is through REDUCED demand (or gov't intervention). When people take steps to reduce their consumption the price of gasoline will come down somewhat. However, because global demand is rising at a rate of about 1-2 million barrels of oil per day per year (sorry, that's not represented well) the supply is going to continue to be constrained. Which means prices will have a lot of upward pressure being exerted on them.

 

I think another simple answer to why prices are rising, is that we aren't really reducing our fuel consumption. For every one of us that gets a Prius, some Jerk is getting an H2 or other gas guzzler. Now, not everyone that gets a gas guzzling vehicle is a problem, but next time you are on the road, take note of how many gas guzzler's are occupied by just 1 person!

What we really NEED (since it seems to be the only way to get people to do anything different) is much higher prices. If prices get up over $3 everywhere and then keep moving to $4 or higher, people WILL start to make changes in their lives.

The real problem however is that the majority of the gas guzzlers can afford it and those that have sedans or other reasonable gas consuming vehicles can't and can't afford to get anything different either in many cases.

PS - If I repeated anything already said, I apoligize. I'll admit I did not read every single post in length, I just skimmed.

 

Check it out:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/05/bi..._sena.html#more

interesting read. It'll be interesting to see if it gets anywhere.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ May 5 2006, 11:18 AM) [snapback]250357[/snapback]</div>

I hang out on a couple other web forums for the other vehicles I own (but barely drive) which are both SUVs.

As you can imagine, there is non-stop complaining about high gas prices, and many of the same misunderstandings as to how retail gas prices are set as have been posted here. Despite the number of "solutions" to high gas prices being proposed on those other forums, the one that is never proposed is the one that should be the most obvious and most effective: use less gasoline. Really discouraging that the average person just doesn't get it.

Then again, we already did know that Prius owners were ahead of the curve. :lol: