Why get PIP, no cost savings.

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Dark_Prius, Apr 28, 2012.

  1. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Continuing to drive your current vehicle, especially one totally paid for, is a sensible choice. But that doesn't tell us anything about what you'd do when the time comes to replace it.

    What are the plus's & minus's of having a plug?
     
  2. alfon

    alfon Senior Member

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    Green gasoline is called Ethanol, and it takes 2 gallons or
    so of petroleum diesel fuel to make one gallon of Ethanol.

    Two gallons of diesel = 260,000 btu's
    One gallon of Ethanol = 67,000 btu's

    I believe if gasoline and diesel could be made from
    abundant coal and / or natural gas for say $4.00 /
    gallon retail with all taxes without any government
    intervention that would make sense, not Ethanol.

    In a few years someone thinking outside the box
    will develope a rechargeable battery that will be
    inexpensive, lightweight, and be able to contain
    1,000 KW or more of electricity. Remember electricty
    has no weight. Than there will be no need for
    100 million of oil barrels a day for world demand
    maybe 10 million at most for plastics, tires,
    etc...
     
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  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    How old is that information? In some locations, we've moved on to using biowaste for the source and industrial waste for the refining. The process itself is becoming more efficient too.
     
  4. CharlesH

    CharlesH CA HOV Decal #5 on former PiP

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    I've heard that the ethanol requirement in gasoline is pork provided by Congress to corn farmers in the MidWest. Here in California, ethanol is required in the name of lower emissions, even though the oil companies claim there are tweaks to their refining process that could provide comparable emission reduction. As mentioned, it is not particularly "green" to make ethanol from corn, and lots of work is being done to generate ethanol from non-food sources such as prairie grasses. But lots of votes in the MidWest for Congress-people would be at risk by cutting the support for the farmers that comes from these requirements.
     
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  5. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    well you can find current oil-industry backed publications claiming the EREI for ethanol is .5:1. But these are all flawed studies because they draw their energy boundaries wrong.

    The studies I've read that have EREI << 1, include all energy input for farming, diesel as well as energy/fertilizer, equipment, shipping, but then only consider the energy value fo the "ethanol", and ignore the co-products such as dry distiller grain with solubles (DDGS) and the fact that the farmers would likely grow something so the equipment etc is often a wash. The DDGS, however is still used for feedstock and in fact is often BETTER feedstock than raw corn as it has a higher protein/fat to sugar ratio. Recent studies have the overall ratio greater than 1.25-1.34, not near as good as sugar-cane based ethanol. The DDSgrain "energy" value as a co-product is estimated by a displacement method and is an area ripe with disagreement on its value. Its viable at a small/modest size if the volume were grow, the energy of the co-products become lower as there is an inelastic demand so if we tried to move to 100% ethanol, the grain could not be used.

    Here is a good starting report on the energy balance: http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/AF/265.pdf
     
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  6. Roadburner440

    Roadburner440 Member

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    I think it is ironic how people want to say "well you can't really look at break even points" or "you need to compare a car with similar features like the Entune, etc..." It sure is weird how turned around this is compared to when you guys talk about the Volt.. When we talk about the Volt it is ALWAYS about break even points, or comparing it to a Geo Metro or some other junk... Not the PiP though. You can't negate the fact that the man is right. That the base PiP costs $32,000, and a base Prius cost $24,000. I just cannot help but chuckle at some of the replies. The OP is 100% correct when you apply the same logic to the PiP that has been applied to the Volt time and time again.
     
  7. drinnovation

    drinnovation EREV for EVER!

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    Well I disagreed with the OP, but then again I've disagreed with the same argument when people say you cannot justify the Volt. Maybe they cannot justify it to themselves.. its all about what the buyer value.

    There may be some here that have a different standard for the PiP and the Volt, but maybe they just hate GM so much they cannot find a suitable value for it. But I think many of the volt bashers are just being quite and not posting on this thread. But i guess that is just quietly ironic.
     
  8. ProximalSuns

    ProximalSuns Senior Member

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    If a person had 10 mile commute to work, they could not use any gasoline for the their daily work commute. If a 20 mile commute each day, they could cut their gas usage in half.

    Entire value of owning a Prius is in using less gasoline and helping to save the country and the planet. Not saving money on oil but saving on using oil.
     
  9. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Cause it's electric Baby!!

    ...

    well, sort of

    :D
     
  10. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    Well, we're on Priuschat :). Some of us dislike GM, don't find their products compelling and/or have had negative experiences owning GM vehicles.
     
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  11. Kevin_in_SB

    Kevin_in_SB Junior Member

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    My wife is averaging 64.5 mpg mix of gas and plug in. My 2008 Prius is getting about 42mpg granted I have a bike rack on the roof. Still her new pip is getting 20mpg more then mine.
     
  12. drash

    drash Senior Member

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    Gasoline, to me, comes at a premium not entirely registered at the pump. 4,400 Americans, hundreds of billions of dollars, and countless torn families not to mention >100,000 Iraqi civilian deaths because we want to protect our oil supply line from one place. How many more will we have to endure? Is our oil pipeline any more secure than it was before this damn war started? Is it any more secure from natural disasters or human mistakes? Who's really paying for those fines and the massive lawsuits levied on the oil and gas companies?

    And its getting to the point where you have to ask yourself, do I want to spend more money in my vehicle for a month than heating, cooking, and living in my house?

    And I don't hate the Volt. Bravo to drinnovation, and everybody on this board for their foresight.
     
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  13. radiocycle

    radiocycle Active Member

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    It's not all about the money, my friend. I want to drive the cleanest vehicle around that will suit my driving needs; the PiP is that vehicle! I want to be on the edge of an emerging technology; the Pip is that vehicle! I've been waiting for this car for years and now I can actually drive one. It is a game-changing vehicle, like it or not, and in my nearly fifty years of driving more cars than most people have in a lifetime, the PiP is the best car I've ever had the pleasure of owning!
     
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  14. iRun26.2

    iRun26.2 New Member

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    I agree. I look forward to reading Drinovation's opinions. I once really wanted a Volt but my PiP is a much better match for me.
     
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  15. alfon

    alfon Senior Member

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    No matter how you look at it all us Prius owners ,no
    matter what Prius you drive, we as a group
    are saving millions of gallons of gasoline.

    Those extra gallons are helping out our friends
    who drive large vehicles, many because they
    have no choice, like construction workers and
    truckers.

    We should all feel very proud with our help
    in this area....
     
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  16. sub3marathonman

    sub3marathonman Active Member

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    Unfortunately, as an early owner of a 2004 Prius (bought used in 2005), as well as a 2005 and 2006 purchased new, I will say that I too agree with Roadburner440 and the OP. I see Toyota as sitting on their success, with a pitiful improvement that took 8 years and delivered less than the Hymotion kit installed in my 2006. All the while taking away things like the 3-door SKS from certain models, and having the back-up camera only in an option package, to force people into paying thousands of dollars more than necessary.

    As John McEnroe would say, "You can't be serious." A $40K PIP? Granted, that is the most expensive one, with a few extra options, and it seems the majority have opted for the basic PIP. And I can understand mitch672 as a single person with one vehicle, and people in California wanting the HOV sticker.

    I waited for the PIP, wanted the PIP, but researched the Volt and the Leaf, and jumped at the chance to get a Leaf. We'll use the Hymotion 2006 for longer trips. With the rebate comparison, it is obvious that the PIP comes up short. So yes, the Leaf won't travel coast to coast like the PIP, but I don't need it to do that. I really don't need more range than the Hymotion kit gives, but it is nice. I don't need Entune, whatever that might be, and I certainly don't need Toyoguard at $700 to wreck the glass with their etching and give me a bottle of junk. Toyota has gotten so bad that they won't even pass their $2500 government tax credit on to people who would choose to lease.

    So I guess I just expected more from Toyota, based on their world-changing spectacular Prius many, many years ago.
     
  17. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    Some brilliant thoughts there, electricity has no weight! Obviously you havn't been measuring your electrons lately. :D
     
  18. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

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    22.5 Mpg more, is nothing to scoff at. It has been hard won and a lot of Credit should be given to the company that did it. Watching today's Auto show on TV, they unveiled a small Chevy performance car, that got 14mpg. and could do 0-60 in 3.4 sec. Detroit wil never get it! :mad:
     
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  19. LenP

    LenP Member

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    Cars are transportation not investments. If it was all about what’s the least expensive to drive, or monies saved we’d all be driving the cheapest thing made? Forget Lexus, Mercedes, and all the luxury vehicles so may people love to own. As for the Prius it’s not expensive in its lower end packages, yet it’s still reliable and very economical to run. As for the base PIP, move over this car does it all. For a car of this quality it’s not expensive. You can always drive a lawn mower if you’re into cheap transportation, but they do pollute, not very efficient, and are kind of slow.
     
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  20. Rebound

    Rebound Senior Member

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    The Exxon Valdez spill.
    The Iraq War
    The Second Iraq War
    The Deepwater Horizon Spill

    These things make me angry as hell, and there's been nothing I could do about it... Then Prius came along. Now there's something I can do about it. 80 MPG commuter miles... Enough of that, and those clowns won't be able to destroy drinking water with fracking or drill in arctic tundra, because there won't be enough demand for their product. We can do this, one car at a time.
     
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