Why I Got Rid of My New Prime

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by James Luckett, Jan 10, 2020.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    It takes about half hour at 100 °C for the antiwear and antioxidant additives such as ZDDP to get fully activated.

    It's true that not every contaminant evaporates, but some do. Acids certainly don't. It's more likely for the contaminants to turn into acids if the engine isn't fully run for long periods regularly. This is one reason oil change is required once a year even if the car is driven for only a few hundred miles.

    The engine oil temperature takes more than a few minutes to reach normal values, and it's longer in hybrid engines because the battery cuts in half the time.
     
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  2. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    More evidence that you REALLY don't know what you are talking about.
    There is NO "activation" required for the additives that you mention.......other than coming in contact with the metal they are supposed to protect......or the contaminants that they are supposed to neutralize.
    Some of those processes might be a bit more efficient at higher temps but the heat is not REQUIRED to make them work.


    And that last statement is absolutely false, at least with a conventional hybrid.
    Depending on the state of charge in the battery and the power required at the moment, the battery can actually ADD to the engine load instead decreasing it. That is usually the case the first time the engine runs.
     
  3. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    Well, anyway, the conversation started with someone switching to another car company. I can respect their decision. I will stick with Toyota.
     
  4. Chazman62

    Chazman62 Junior Member

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    I agree.
    One can't/shouldn't judge the reliability of a certain brand by looking at how many cars in a dealership lot.
     
    #44 Chazman62, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  5. Prime Alex

    Prime Alex New Member

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    The initial post was bound to ruffle a few feathers, but it's interesting to get another perspective. Most purchase decisions aren't entirely based on hard facts.

    We also considered the Ioniq when looking at the Prime initially, but the Hyundai dealership we visited didn't have one on the lot. In the end, we opted for Toyota's reputability, especially after hearing about Ioniq's dual-clutch transmission issues.
     
  6. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    Nope, on the contrary you have no knowledge of engine oil. Do you even know what ZDDP and moly are and how they form tribofilms?

    Here is a good presentation from which you can learn about it. ZDDP is used in all oils and trinuclear moly is used in Toyota Genuine Motor Oil (TGMO).

    http://elit-oil.io.ua/files/0001/21/00012167.pdf
     
    #46 Gokhan, Jan 13, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
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  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I wonder if the new RAV4 PHEV is going to the big hit this year...guess it depends on price.
    I guess the tax incentives make it easier to swap out PHEV wheels.
     
  8. dubit

    dubit Active Member

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    While reading through this thread I realized that yup - @bisco was right. My avatar does fit me.
    .
    .
    .
    I had a reply all typed up too. darnit bisco!!!
     
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  9. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I’m gonna guess yes. Power and performance is good. Yes there’s the price but Toyota knows how to price it well to balance profits and sales. They’ll get it done.
     
  10. Wolfie52

    Wolfie52 Senior "Jr" Member

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    My '17 Advanced has lane control/monitor(will nudge you back--I can feel it), Auto Parking (I am actually better than it, but many people could use that), blind spot monitor, cross traffic alerts-(great for parking lots),auto braking when you are close to an object (stopped me from hitting the back of my garage once--I get lazy) radar cruise control (which has possibly saved me from 2 potential accidents), and up to 37 miles per charge (per dashboard, not what I actually drive, which may be more or less--even 2 1/2 yrs later in winter I still get 27 or so EV miles ). Remote climate was included but why does anyone need remote start? (Think theft). There is no need to "warm up" any modern car! The predecessor to the Prime, my 2013 PiP , which I gave to my son, had heat provided by running the engine, which isn't as efficient as the Prime heat source..they don't usually change something like that if it was efficient and working well. (On the Prime I can do that should I chose, but rarely do.)

    I have looked at 2020 Prime models and it doesn't seem they offer the same deals or "options" as I got during the "close out" period on my 17...maybe I got super lucky.

    Frankly, I took a long look at my available options (including the Ioniq) before I got the Prime. With all the deals (end of model year) and rebates (not including Fed tax credit--remember, you have to OWE that much tax to actually get the credit) about 29K$ new;about 25K net. Only 3 year Roadside assist but I am not too worried about those maintenance/warrantee issues. They likely won't show up on a newish car for 7-10 years.

    Like when buying a house; those who really profit from those who move every few years are RE agents, appraisers, bank/montage brokers, home warranty w\sellers, etc. If you got out even, you were lucky!

    I am not sure about other cars, but my NEW 2017 Prime Advanced cost less to insure than my wife's 7 year old Lexus, so that is something to consider as well.

    Also. most people aren't aware that the largest energy and water cost of a vehicle is in the manufacturing and transportation, not gas in the tank after you get it--so for the environment's sake keep your cars longer! If you are really interested in being eco friendly that is something you should be aware of! The ads will never tell you stuff like that!
     
  11. evpv

    evpv Active Member

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    Not for me. Golf clubs fit easily in my Prime. They don’t fit in the Ioniq plug-in unless you fold a seat down. Deal breaker for me. Same reason I didn’t buy a Chevy Volt.
     
  12. schja01

    schja01 One of very few in Chicagoland

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    This is definitely not the case for me and it’s mostly in the Collision coverage. They know it will cost a bundle to repair. I’m with State Farm and am subscribing to their Drive Safe and Save program which at least is currently saving me $125/6mos or about 25%. The car it replaced pays half of that. A 7 year loaded Toyota Venza which is now the wife’s ride.
     
    #52 schja01, Jan 14, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    This is a sore point with me. The manufacturers are putting bling above durability and easy of repair/maintenance. Couple this with a complete shell design every five or six years. The cost of all of this "enticement" comes out of the customer's pocket.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    You might have. The 2020 Limited MSRP is $33,650, with maybe a $500 incentive from Toyota here.
    The BSM only available on it is available on the mid trim Ioniq PHEV.
     
  15. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Yes.
    And do you know that in this context "detergents" really is an improper name for "dispersants" ?
    The purpose it to keep particles of solid carbon from sticking together to form sludge.
     
  16. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Active Member

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    The state incentive requires that you keep the car for at least 30 months. You have to give back the state incentive if you don't keep the car for 30 months:

     
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  17. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    I am a big oil geek.

    Detergents and dispersants are different, separate additives, with different molecular structures, both needed in the so-called detergent - inhibitor package (DI, additive package of the oil) . Detergents are bases (high pH) used to neutralize the acids (low pH) generated in the oil (through oxidation, nitation, and sulfation) and clean the engine deposits. You're right about the dispersants.

    Let's not hijack the thread discussing oil.
     
    #57 Gokhan, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
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  18. George W

    George W Active Member

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    Anyone have a good recipe for chocolate chip cookies?
     
  19. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Most people aren't.

    And the "fine details" that "geeks" appreciate often have no practical meaning for the public in general.

    IF.....you stop suggesting that it might be a bad thing to change your oil a bit sooner than the standard recommendation, then I won't reply to create an oil thread inside another discussion.
     
  20. Gokhan

    Gokhan Active Member

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    I had not made any recommendations one way or the other.

    I, myself, will stick with whatever the maintenance manual recommends, which is SAE 0W-16 for the Prime with oil-change intervals of 10,000 mi/1 yr for normal driving and 5,000 mi/6 mo for severe operating conditions described in the manual. It will naturally go to the dealer for service during the free maintenance period.

    For those who care, Toyota Genuine Motor Oil (TGMO) 0W-16 is made by ExxonMobil and is GTL-based (gas to liquid, base oil made from natural gas). Mobil 1 AFE 0W-16, made by the same company, is PAO-based (polyalphaolefin, made entirely through a synthetic process) with some alkylated naphthalene (AN), one step up from GTL, but GTL in turn is a one step up from common synthetic oil, which is made by severely hydroprocessing less refined petroleum base stocks. The better is the base oil, the longer is the oil-change interval you can have and in more severe conditions.
     
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