Why I Hate my Prius Prime

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by stevepea, Apr 29, 2017.

  1. joachimz

    joachimz Senior Member

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    agreed in general, but if you have the option to charge, I'd make your statement more like >50-70 miles (vs >25) ... i just posted a profile of my commute (39 fwy out of 50 total miles) ... My EV range story
     
  2. Prius from Dad

    Prius from Dad Senior Member

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    The ICE won't finish warm up after EV in 1 mile so it doesn't turn off when stopped.
     
  3. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    Right but in this scenario he just left the freeway which is 1.5 miles from home so I would think ICE wouldn't go through warmup cycle. I agree though that you would want to avoid depleting EV at a time which might cause warmup cycle during an inopportune time. Although even it did happen occasionally, seems like it might be sort of a wash - a couple of minutes of engine idling at a stoplight vs. missing an opportunity for an additional mile of grid charging resulting in an additional mile of gasoline usage.

    Correction: Witness lives 2.5 miles from the freeway, it's 1.5 miles from their office to the freeway.
     
    #83 Since2002, May 5, 2017
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  4. Prius from Dad

    Prius from Dad Senior Member

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    When you are in EV the whole trip and deplete it, the ICE goes into warm up mode. I agree that 1.5 miles of ICE is nothing for a 11.3 gal. tank. I wish I had that commute. ;)
     
  5. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    This would be true anytime you switch from EV to HV when the engine is below operating temperature, correct? Whether you manually switch from EV to HV, or by depleting EV. If below operating temperature it will go into warmup cycle which I assume means that the engine will start running if it wasn't running already, and it will continue running even if not otherwise needed, until it reaches operating temperature. Which if you are driving at freeway speed when this occurs then the concept of warmup cycle is sort of academic since the engine will be running anyways regardless of whether it is warmed up or not.

    If my understanding is correct then there are three scenarios when warmup cycle can occur:

    1. Starting out in HV mode with an engine below operating temperature
    2. Manually switching from EV mode to HV mode when the engine is below operating temperature
    3. Depleting EV charge when the engine is below operating temperature

    In all three scenarios I assume you want to avoid warmup cycle occurring during a time when you are likely to stop at a signal light or drive at slow speeds. Obviously scenario #1 if you don't have any EV charge left then you don't have much choice about starting out in HV , but you would try and avoid getting into the situation that you stop somewhere long enough for the engine to substantially cool off, and your first couple of miles starting out again will include stoplights and/or slow speeds, but you have no EV charge available to avoid warmup cycle from occurring. Having dinner at Cracker Barrel wouldn't be an issue because you will be right back on the freeway. But staying at a hotel could be if it is a few miles from the freeway. No problem driving to the hotel in HV since the engine is already warm. But in the morning you have to drive through several miles of stoplights before getting on the freeway, so hopefully you have some EV miles available to get you from the hotel to the freeway, then you can switch to HV.

    In the case of Witness, they stop at home after work and are able to charge a bit before going back to pick up their child. If the stop at home is long enough for the engine to cool off, but not long enough to gain enough grid charge to make the child pick-up trip in all EV, then I could see leaving some EV charge in the battery to avoid a warmup cycle occurring during the trip to pick up their child.
     
  6. Prius from Dad

    Prius from Dad Senior Member

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    From my experience, there is always a warm up cycle. When you drive in EV mode the ICE doesn't run, so it doesn't warm up at all. Also, if you don't have any EV left and turn off the car then start it back up, the ICE will come back on as you drive even if it was warmed up. It's just how the car works. Granted it will be only for a short time but it does. On my commute I use EV for 3 miles then HV for 4 miles and when the EV depletes there is another few miles of warm up even though the ICE was running 30 minutes earlier no matter the outside temp.
     
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  7. Since2002

    Since2002 Senior Lurker

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    So if I understand this correctly, sort of an extreme example but if you were driving on the freeway in HV for 100 miles, on a summer day, and you have 0.1 miles of EV charge remaining. You pull off the freeway and switch to EV and use the remaining 0.1 miles pulling up to a red light just off the freeway. Just as you pull up to the red light it switches to HV and ICE comes on and goes through warmup cycle the entire time you are sitting there at the red light.

    If that's how it works then I guess that does complicate the strategy of when to deplete EV. But then it would also seem complicate the strategy of manually switching from EV to HV. If you are trying to conserve EV miles for whatever reason, I guess you don't want to switch to HV while are sitting at a red light otherwise ICE will come on. Better to wait if possible until you are on the freeway, or if on surface streets wait until you expect to be moving for a couple of miles without stopping so that at least you can make some use of ICE while it is going through warmup cycle.
     
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  8. Prius from Dad

    Prius from Dad Senior Member

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    In that scenario, yes it would. I've had something similar happen to me a few times. At the end of my EV, some days, I still have about 1 mile to a red light and the ICE will run while I wait for the red light.
     
  9. stevepea

    stevepea Senior Member

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    I just posted a question relevant to EV Freeway driving over the in "My EV Range Story" thread (since both threads currently are discussing EV range). Don't want to re-post the same one here, but if you haven't yet, please have a look and reply over there, thanks :)
    (Maybe I should have posted it here instead?)
     
  10. Witness

    Witness Active Member

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    If you run the battery all the way down - meaning below half on the HV battery indicator, ICE kicks on and continues even when you're stopped. My approach is to avoid running it down to that point to avoid unnecessary ICE operation. Better to also leave the battery with some juice, even though the PiP reserves 20% of it and is inaccessible to you.
     
  11. bfd

    bfd Plug-In Perpetuator

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    Do I need a new Prime is a bit different from do I want a new Prime…

    So this thread is really helpful to someone who's trying to decide whether another 4-year commitment of car payments is really worth the cost for what could turn out to be merely an "upgrade" from 11 miles EV to 22 … It sounds like more than a few of the things that we all hated about the original PiP haven't really been completely addressed in the Prime - and there are maybe even a few new things to hate. LOL

    Luckily, I don't need to make a decision today, next week or even next month. So I hope these kinds of reality threads continue. I don't take threads like these as Prius Hater threads at all. It's best to have realistic expectations and see as much data - as well as informed opinions - before going into a decision like buying a Prime. For those who've never been in a Prius, I don't think this thread would scare them away from a Prime. For those who have - especially those of us coming from the first gen PiP - we already know these things and wonder if they've improved - so it's helpful to read what others are finding out as they drive their Primes.
     
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  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i feel the same way. there's a lot to like, but the hatch space is putting me off, since i fill it up a lot.
     
  13. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Having had Prime for total of 2 days, I concur with many of OP's points for not liking Prime. That said, being able to do most of my daily commuting without depending on gas over weigh the cons, especially with the deep discount Toyota is offering. For me the cargo space and loss of third seat are the top of the list for dislike. I upgraded from 2015 Prius Two, and in first day of driving the new car I miss my 3gen Prius's large cargo space. Did previous PiP have better hatch space?
     
    #93 Salamander_King, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
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  14. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Yes. Same a set your 2015 minus te underfloor bins (the PiP does have a small, narrow bin to store the cable and tonneau cover but it's not as large as the standard underfloor bin. It's also missing the side bin since that's where the tire repair kit resides)
     
  15. NJ-PrimeAdvanced

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    Looks like the cargo space and the lack of 3rd seat are the two biggest complaints against the Prime... Comes up over and over:-(
     
  16. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Mostly (but not entirely) by people who don't own one.

    I had a 2004 for 13 years. I very regularly load my Prime to the max with all kinds of different loads. Some things that didn't fit into my 2004 do fit in my Prime simply because the car is a little wider. I have yet to have a time where what I wanted to put in the thing didn't fit. I've posted numerous pictures of my Prime loaded heavily. The loss of vertical space in the back hasn't yet been a problem. It's much bigger back there than it looks. I'm amazed how high I can pile stuff without even blocking the view out the back, much less getting close to the window.

    Yes, there's no fifth seat. But I used the fifth seat in my 2004 about three times in 13 years. This is because the car just wasn't wide enough for two car seats (or booster chairs) and even a small child, much less an adult, between them.
     
  17. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    When was the last time I needed the fifth seat in my car? I can't remember. But for that one time in 13 years, I may wish I had not switched from gen3. :)
     
  18. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    In the event that I need a fifth seat, we just take our Mazda5 with third row. Way more comfortable than the center of a Prius rear bench anyway.
     
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  19. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    We have Sienna for that purpose. 7 seats, though I have two of second raw seats removed and 3rd raw bench stowed away 99% of time. I use it to haul full 4x8 feet sheet of plywood, 12 bails of straws, 400 lbs of chicken feeds now! It gets measly 19 mpg though. :(
     
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  20. NJ-PrimeAdvanced

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    That makes me think... Can you get away with having a 5th passenger (not a tall one) sit on that divider in the Prime? I mean - who would know. The police wouldn't stop you for that? From a distance it looks legit.
     
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