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Why is apparently no one buying a Prius/Prius Prime on the East Coast?

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Gokhan, Oct 12, 2023.

  1. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Priuses and Prius Primes are selling before they arrive on the lot on the West Coast—even with huge markups—but apparently they are priced at MSRP and the lots are full of them on the East Coast. Go figure. In fact, the availability seems to monotonously decrease when you go from the East to the West.

    Toyota inventory | New-Toyota inventory search
     
  2. JGC61

    JGC61 Active Member

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    Smithtown Toyota had a 5K mark up and are down to $1,500.
    I wouldn't pay more than sticker price.
    This is my 4th Prius
     
  3. ken2023

    ken2023 Junior Member

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    Hybrid and PEV per capita sales are significantly higher on the west coast than the east coast, almost 2x. No idea why. My area is thick with large SUVs, and mostly two-kid families, who knows why they need that much space. Maybe their kids all play the cello. My youngest plays the flute.
     
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  4. Jim Stoll

    Jim Stoll Member

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    I'm in the mid-Atlantic region, and was actively searching for an available AWD LE for about 2 months - the only ones I found were either black or white exterior, and/or with a black interior (and I live just far enough south that black interior or exterior is not real pleasant in the summer). There were a few top-level trims available when I was searching, but I didn't want to pay the price for junk I didn't need, and I wanted to have the ability to use chains when I go skiing in the winter (ie, 17" wheels). Anyway, point being, my experience was not even close to there being lots full of Priuses available out here. (I did encounter several cases of either markup, or non-negotiable BS like extra warranties, paint treatments, etc adding up to $5-$6k, as well as one dealership that (in addition to a bunch of BS extras) refused cash sales or even outside financing - had to finance through their in-house scheme so they would get the profit from the loan.)

    I finally stumbled into an October allotment (in August) with an amazing dealer without markup or other BS. They have been amazing to deal with, and will be picking the car up 2 days from now. (This dealer is 2 states away from me, so that's where I had to go to actually get my hands on one.) I kinda feel like I won the lottery.
     
    #4 Jim Stoll, Oct 12, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2023
  5. Preebee

    Preebee Senior Member

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    Nor has anybody else's. You gotta take OP's posts with a grain of salt. They often contain misinformation. Dude is always ranting/trolling.
     
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  6. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

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    In Quebec, which has generous subsidies for electric and certain phev, my car shopping friends tell me it's a 3 year wait for a rav4p, 2 yrs for a prius p, 18 months for the phev Lexus NX

    supply and demand?

    more like LACK of supply.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Same market forces in effect as there were for the gen4 Prime; fewer and lower incentives for it on the East Coast. It's why Toyota had to have large incentives on the cars here.
    Then there is ever present effect of gas prices. California is currently averaging over $2 more a gallon than NJ.

    All taken into account can lead to Toyota shipping more to places where the limited supply will sell quicker.
     
  8. PriusPeep

    PriusPeep Member

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    Why is Prius not a national home run? Consumers are not dumb. As I previously stated, Toyota discontinued the Prius. In its place they took the nameplate and put it on a new vehicle.

    Toyota has a large number of models. You'd think the main focus of a new "Prius" would have been fuel efficiency, the trademark characteristic of the brand. Instead Toyota went for looks and power, seriously disappointing a large number of aficionados who were not expecting an MPG DECREASE.
     
  9. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

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    What if you're someone who envisions driving his/her/their Prius PRIME as a commuter car, for fewer than 60km round trip most days, with the occasional longer drive?

    Then for most of your driving, you don't need to burn any gas...

    MPG decrease? Maybe slightly.

    Battery only range? HUGE increase.


    As for the Prius (non prime)... many other hybrids in the marketplace, even in the Toyota lineup. And Toyota's now chosen to compete with those, because it's not the only game in town anymore.
     
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  10. ken2023

    ken2023 Junior Member

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    Well for me fuel efficiency is more about reducing how much gasoline I burn, given my driving demands. Few people, myself included, will give a crap about the small change in MPG when running exclusively on gas. But the decrease in fuel consumption is tremendous with the Prime. It never even needs the gas engine even under hard acceleration. Just passed 2,000 miles, and still have the original gas from the dealer, at about 1/3 tank. For the non-prime, few people are going to care about the small drop in efficiency. All of their hybrid small vehicles are similar in efficiency, and the Prius is and always has been their liftback with a PHEV option and a focus on efficiency.
     
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  11. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

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    What if you're someone who envisions driving his/her/their Prius PRIME as a commuter car, for fewer than 60km round trip most days, with the occasional longer drive?

    Then for most of your driving, you don't need to burn any gas...

    MPG decrease? Maybe slightly.

    Battery only range? HUGE increase.


    As for the Prius (non prime)... many other hybrids in the marketplace, even in the Toyota lineup. And Toyota's now chosen to compete with those, because it's not the only game in town anymore.
     
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  12. ColoradoBoo

    ColoradoBoo Senior Member

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    EV sales, overall, seem to be diminishing. For the third quarter, GM posted over 600,000 vehicles sold but only 20,000 of them were EVs...not even close to GM's goal of going all electric. Toyota wasn't far behind with 590,000 sold.

    When the governments (Fed and State) stop giving their "EV Incentive" money the number of EVs is going to plummet. (Giving incentives to rich folks to buy these cars by taking money from everybody else is the opposite of Robin Hood.)
     
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  13. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Where the plug-in is concerned, California buyers are hugely incentivized by temporary access to HOV lanes as well as dramatically higher gasoline costs.

    Just those two factors by themselves create much stronger demand in California.
     
  14. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

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    "An externality is a positive or negative outcome of a given economic activity that affects a third party that is not directly related to that activity. Erosion and chemical runoff caused by building roads, which causes water pollution further downstream, is an example of a negative externality."

    Or air pollution and climate change contributed to by folks continuing to buy gasoline powered cars.

    That being said, the manufacturers sometimes make it more difficult for consumers to do the right thing.

    GM is suspending Bolt production... while at the same time putting the electric Hummer into production. Guess which one they make more money on?

    General Motors will stop producing its Chevy Bolt models - CBS News

    On the other hand, Tesla, to maintain or even gain market share, is dropping prices.

    Tesla cuts Model 3, Model Y prices in the U.S. after deliveries fall.


    Two very different strategies- one seems to be about short term gain, the other seems to be looking at market dominance.

    Me? I'll drive my phev's until I'm convinced a pure BEV makes sense.
     
    #13 Nntw, Oct 12, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2023
  15. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    This scenario has been true 10 years, why is this news?
     
  16. Preebee

    Preebee Senior Member

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    The 2023 Prius IS a national homerun hence the exorbitant markups seen at dealerships all over the country. It's too bad that Toyota had parts constraints or we'd see these babies everywhere.

    There are plenty of other new cars available for purchase at MSRP or lower.

    And as far as MPG decreases go...

    2023 LE fwd mpg, what are you getting? | Page 7 | PriusChat

    I found the G5 LE to be a VERY impressive fuel sipper. Some of the folks driving the new Prius just need to slow down a little lol. I know... I know... it's hard to do when the car is so dang fun to drive.
     
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  17. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

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    Exactly! a fun to drive Prius!! With style too!!!
     
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  18. 23PriLE

    23PriLE Junior Member

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    I'm a first time Toyota owner so I'm not well versed in the history of the Prius. But a quick search shows the following EPA estimates. I don't see any evidence of decreased mpg.

    2017 Eco: 56 Combined
    2017 Prius: 52 Combined
    2022 LE: 52 Combined
    2023 LE: 57 Combined
    2022 XLE/Ltd: 52 Combined
    2023 XLE/Ltd: 52 Combined

    Not sure, but are there any other new (non-plug in) hybrids available that get better than 57 mpg combined?

    As for consumers not being dumb . . . mpg figures alone don't tell the whole story. Consumers who prioritize total cost of ownership and who are less interested in styling and power are looking for the best combination of price and mpg if they're smart. For them, opting for the Corolla Hybrid, which was first introduced in 2020, makes more sense. It costs thousands less, is more available and is rated 50 mpg combined.

    A quick calculation . . . assuming gas at $3.75 / gal, the fuel cost of a Prius LE would be $921 less than a Corolla Hybrid over 100,000 miles. Unless you drive the car for 500,000 or 600,000 miles you'll never recoup the price difference between the two on fuel savings.

    I bought the Prius precisely because it looks better (IMO) now and has more power. I see the mpg as just a bonus.

    Prius sales have been on a steady downward trend for many years. The general shift towards SUVs and trucks has eliminated several models of sedans over the years. Within the market for "cars" (non-SUVs, trucks, "crossovers") there are also now many more choices when it comes to hybrids. The Prius also competes against the Camry Hybrid, for example, and various models by other brands. When it was first introduced, the Prius was pretty much the only hybrid game in town.
     
  19. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    At six figures, I don't think enough Hummer EVs will be sold to exceed to loss of Bolt sales. Besides, GM didn't stop Bolt production for the Hummer, it was to convert the factory to Silverado EVs, which has a bigger profit potential.

    Before the Bolt return, we will get the Equinox EV, and that should be under cutting the Model Y on price.

    How many are actually being sold at the mark up vs MSRP? There was also mark ups and wait times for the new 2004, and that was while Toyota was able to supply over 80% more units.

    I think only the Prime saw an actual decrease to the fuel economy rating with the new gen. Which was the trade off for over a 50% increase in EV range.
     
  20. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

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    Fine... I can rewrite that sentence to:

    "GM is suspending Bolt production... while at the same time putting the electric Silverado into production. Guess which one they make more money on?" ;)

    I think the Equinox is also more expensive than the Bolt... so my point still stands, GM discontinued a more affordable EV in favour of ones with higher margins.
     
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  21. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    OK, here is the answer to my question in my original post: Gas prices decrease monotonically when you go from the West Coast to the East Coast:

    Regional gasoline-price differences—U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

    [​IMG]

    This shows two things:
    • Prius sales are extremely sensitive to gas prices.
    • Toyota is adjusting the Prius supply very carefully to keep the prices high—an only slightly higher supply would result in full dealer lots and factory rebates/dealer incentives.
    @Trollbait, California state, local, and utility rebates on the Prius and Prius Prime are all but gone. If you are lucky, you might get the $1,000 CVRP rebate, but the funds are almost exhausted and there is no guarantee. Moreover, they are sunsetting the HOV-decal program on PHEV/BEV/FCEVs on September 30, 2025.