1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Why is apparently no one buying a Prius/Prius Prime on the East Coast?

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Gokhan, Oct 12, 2023.

  1. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2023
    396
    244
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A
    You may want to say something about electricity prices too, then.

    Reading posts here, my province apparently has pretty reasonable electricity prices, making the purchase of a "Prime" a better idea than a conventional hybrid.
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,164
    49,161
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    There are virtually zero primes around here.
    Online inventory is meaningless.
    You call, and they are pre sold.
    IDK about regular Prius
     
    Rmay635703 and Preebee like this.
  3. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,498
    1,811
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    There are almost none there in Boston, yes, but if you are willing to travel, there are hundreds.

    In contrast, there are only two within 500 miles of my Los Angeles County Zip code.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    108,164
    49,161
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    You’re assuming they are on the lots unsold, that is not the case.
    Call and find out
     
  5. Preebee

    Preebee Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    819
    727
    4
    Location:
    Kansas
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    Lmao! :rolleyes:
     
  6. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,498
    1,811
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    In any case, there are two in the inventory here and 200 over there—day and night.
     
  7. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2023
    396
    244
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A

    Goin' back a few years, a Porsche executive was supposedly asked, "How many cars do you plan to bring in?"

    "One fewer than there's demand for", he's alleged to have said.


    I'm sure that's ANY corporation's dream... but difficult to accomplish.
     
    Gokhan likes this.
  8. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,498
    1,811
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Good comment by Porsche.

    These days all big companies invest many millions of dollars in data science to do all these intricate marketing calculations.
     
  9. Jim Stoll

    Jim Stoll Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2019
    63
    36
    0
    Location:
    VA
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    LE AWD-e
    I'm sure it looks that way from looking at the Toyota site (even if you unclick the 'Show Sale Pending' toggle), but if you call and actually talk to a salesperson, you'll generally hear that the Prius is pre-sold - was the story of my life for 2 months. Even the exact Vehicle (identified by VIN online) that I have put a deposit on, that my bank has already sent the dealer a check for (and has been received), is sitting on the dealer's lot, and that I am flying out to pick up on Saturday, is still listed as available on the Toyota site... Toyota's website makes for a pretty sh*tty and relentlessly frustrating search/purchase process, and gives the impression that there are a lot more vehicles out there just waiting to be purchased than is actually the reality.
     
    bisco likes this.
  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,877
    11,398
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    The Bolt was GM's fist foray into a BEV for beyond compliance purposes. The keep costs down, they used an existing ICE platform, and made it a subcompact, one of the lowest selling segments in the US. It was still $6000 to $7000 more than today's Bolt EV.

    Since it went into production, GM has developed a BEV platform, and improved the drivetrain technology. The first product to use it was a Cadillac. It is usual for new tech to start in a luxury product, as it allows quicker investment recoup, and lower production numbers work better with scale up of production. The first Chevies to use it will be in the family SUV segment, as that is the big seller. First the Blazer, and then the Equinox. When announced, the Equinox has a target base price of $30k. We'll see where it ends up, but I don't see the difference with the Bolt being much different than between ICE models of those segments.

    Apparently, GM was talking about stopping Bolt production a few years ago, with the plan of bringing it back. Factories and supply lines don't get built in an instant, and it will take longer with something totally new. There was a one year gap between the old and new Trax, so this happens even with established products. GM may have actually delayed cancelling the Bolt because it was selling well.
     
  11. HacksawMark

    HacksawMark Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2023
    397
    259
    0
    Location:
    Oregon
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    XSE
    Nothing like a little disinformation to get everyone talking about a situation that doesn't exist.
     
    David Mk.2, Gwyd, BacknBlack and 2 others like this.
  12. Preebee

    Preebee Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    819
    727
    4
    Location:
    Kansas
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    Car manufacturers spend immense sums of money on new generation designs. They seek the maximum amount of total profit on their investment, not merely the maximum profit per automobile. A formula for a firm's profit-maximizing level of output could be described as where marginal revenue = marginal cost.

    Thus, their production will be sold at all levels of profitability via a plethora of marketing schemes.
     
  13. 23PriLE

    23PriLE Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2023
    84
    60
    0
    Location:
    North Central Florida
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    Again, you're only considering fuel costs without factoring in the increased cost of the car itself. It's only when the government / taxpayers subsidize the purchase that a Prime becomes more attractive on a total cost basis for most people.

    I don't really follow the Prime situation much. Does Canada subsidize the Prime? If so, how much?

    In the US I think only California offers a subsidy and, from recent posts, that money has run out. Perhaps it will be available again next year? Nationwide, the US subsidy only applies to cars built in the US. Not sure if it applies to plug-in hybrids or only to BEVs like the Tesla.

    If gas costs $3.75 / gal then the total fuel cost for 100,000 miles in an LE is $6578. So if the fuel cost for a Prime is 50% of an LE you would save $3289. I have no idea if that's an accurate assumption and I don't really follow prices closely.

    But if the Prime costs $7000 more than an LE the lower fuel cost will only start to kick in after you have driven the car ~213,000 miles. If you pay $10,000 more for a Prime than an LE you have to drive over 300,000 miles before the lower fuel cost offers any actual savings.

    I keep cars longer than most people but I've never put more than 200,000 miles on any of them. Mileage on my previous 3 cars, all purchased new: '84 Accord (197k miles), '98 Accord (135k miles), '08 Civic (185k miles).
     
  14. 23PriLE

    23PriLE Junior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2023
    84
    60
    0
    Location:
    North Central Florida
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    Looks like my assumption that a Prime's fuel cost might be 50% less than an LE was wildly optimistic.

    Prime Fuel Cost?.jpg


    Based on your post showing a total cost of $153.43 for 2358 miles . . . If an LE gets 57 mpg then it would take 41.37 gallons to go the same distance. If gas costs $3.75 the total cost would be $155.14. Less than $2 difference.

    I really thought the difference would be significant. Is there something I'm missing here?
     
    #34 23PriLE, Oct 12, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2023
    Gokhan likes this.
  15. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,498
    1,811
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    Despite the highest gas prices in the US, here in California, it typically costs a little more to drive a BEV or PHEV than a fuel-efficient HEV like Prius because the electricity prices are even higher (around 40¢/kWh or higher)—unless you find cheap or free charging.
     
    #35 Gokhan, Oct 12, 2023
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2023
    Preebee likes this.
  16. jeremnyc

    jeremnyc Junior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2013
    95
    14
    0
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    In Colombia (s.a.) they use a Stratus system for public utilities. #1 is low rent and #6 is high end. Anyway, status 1 gets the first so many kw free, #2 gets a smaller subsidy and when you get to #3 you pay your full bill. #4 subsidizes some, #5 pays even more, and #6 pays a lot.

    The system may be beneficial in some ways, but it also creates a stratified system where people look down or up on different neighborhoods etc...

    The #6 bills in the coast (where most people visit are so high, they surpass US bills! Some Airbnb are metering electric for rentals!

    Back to Prius, I live in a city where I can't charge. No prime for me. Cities should probably work on ev infrastructure if they're ever going to be practical. To charge, I would pay 10 to $15 an hour for parking ++ the charging $

    Subsidies on ev is one approach, in Europe, they just tax gas, which I guess is kind of like California, but only to a higher level to subsidize public transit.

    I'll get an le because it gets the best mpg overall for a guy without an outlet...
     
    bisco likes this.
  17. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2023
    396
    244
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A


    AN 84 ACCORD?!
     
    Gokhan likes this.
  18. Preebee

    Preebee Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2020
    819
    727
    4
    Location:
    Kansas
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius
    Model:
    LE
    And I just got 70 MPG's on my last tank.
     
  19. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    4,498
    1,811
    0
    Location:
    Paramount CA
    Vehicle:
    2021 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Limited
    It is one of the best cars ever built. :)

     
  20. Nntw

    Nntw Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2023
    396
    244
    0
    Location:
    Toronto
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A


    AN 84 ACCORD?! you have impeccable taste. My parents had one back in the day and graciously let me use it. There are times I still miss that car.

    Regarding rebates and stuff... the fed govt gives rebates for BEVs and plug in hybrids. Some of the provinces add their own.

    I got $5k back when I bought a Ravp.

    after about 45000 km, I figure I saved about $3000 compared to what a gas rav4 would have cost to run, and that's being a bit pessimistic. So I'm about a year from breaking even.

    Also get to use commuter lanes when I'm on my own, and a few other perks.

    So, figure I'll be getting minimal gas bills with the Prius Prime also. It'll also end up being a commuter that's inexpensive to operate.