Why is the Hummer hated?!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(PriusOwner004 @ Sep 11 2007, 08:39 PM) [snapback]511048[/snapback]</div>

This just cracks me up. You don't mind stereotyping people as "tree huggers" just as long as THEY don't use stereotypes?! OK.

 

The grass calling the tree green.

 

The grass calling the tree green.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:38 AM) [snapback]511134[/snapback]</div>

Uglier than a Prius? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I would surmise based on looks alone the H1 Hummer would score magnitudes higher on the "looks" scale than a Prius.

Massive damage? Where? How? Where do you find the time to make this stuff up? Please show me examples of H1's doing "massive" damage to the environment vs. other off road vehicles. And for off road capabilities, the H1 is very capable. It delivers tremendous amounts of torque to each wheel. Its stance is very wide for enhanced stability. No straight axle allows for very high ground clearance. I am sure there other vehicles more capable than the H1, but the H1 is no slouch.

Inadequate?? In what? People who purchase a H1 are invariably wealthy individuals many of whom have accomplished their status through hard work and dedication to their profession.

Maybe true, but unlike the Australian military our military usually sources its weapons and supplies from US sources. Thus the Toyota would not qualify.

Are you jealous??? Seems so with a silly statement as above.

Rick
#4 2006

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(patsparks @ Sep 12 2007, 03:38 AM) [snapback]511134[/snapback]</div>

Uglier than a Prius? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I would surmise based on looks alone the H1 Hummer would score magnitudes higher on the "looks" scale than a Prius.

Massive damage? Where? How? Where do you find the time to make this stuff up? Please show me examples of H1's doing "massive" damage to the environment vs. other off road vehicles. And for off road capabilities, the H1 is very capable. It delivers tremendous amounts of torque to each wheel. Its stance is very wide for enhanced stability. No straight axle allows for very high ground clearance. I am sure there other vehicles more capable than the H1, but the H1 is no slouch.

Inadequate?? In what? People who purchase a H1 are invariably wealthy individuals many of whom have accomplished their status through hard work and dedication to their profession.

Maybe true, but unlike the Australian military our military usually sources its weapons and supplies from US sources. Thus the Toyota would not qualify.

Are you jealous??? Seems so with a silly statement as above.

Rick
#4 2006

 

The H1, the real Hummer, is a great vehicle. It's design and engineering are as clever and elegant as the Prius, but expressed in a different direction. The H3 and especially the H2 are jokes. They are nothing more than boxy shells built on a pickup truck base. I call them wanna-be hummers.

Tom

 

The H1, the real Hummer, is a great vehicle. It's design and engineering are as clever and elegant as the Prius, but expressed in a different direction. The H3 and especially the H2 are jokes. They are nothing more than boxy shells built on a pickup truck base. I call them wanna-be hummers.

Tom

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Sep 12 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]511420[/snapback]</div>

My problem with the H1 is that it's just so tiny! A caterpillar 797! That's what I'M talking about!
http://www.carchaos.com/miscellaneous/mine...aterpillar_797/

I mean, come on - what you REALLY need is the roar of 117,122cc diesel engine! It does 3 gallons per mile, but with the the 1800 gallon tank, you can go from bio-diesel to bio-diesel station - assuming they carry enough for a fillup!

When I get mine, I'm going to customize it with an elevator in the front and a swimming pool in the back!

Cheers!

Dave

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(qbee42 @ Sep 12 2007, 01:52 PM) [snapback]511420[/snapback]</div>

My problem with the H1 is that it's just so tiny! A caterpillar 797! That's what I'M talking about!
http://www.carchaos.com/miscellaneous/mine...aterpillar_797/

I mean, come on - what you REALLY need is the roar of 117,122cc diesel engine! It does 3 gallons per mile, but with the the 1800 gallon tank, you can go from bio-diesel to bio-diesel station - assuming they carry enough for a fillup!

When I get mine, I'm going to customize it with an elevator in the front and a swimming pool in the back!

Cheers!

Dave

 

Not sure if this is related, but in case you haven't heard this news:

Hunt for silver Hummer after bashing

 

Not sure if this is related, but in case you haven't heard this news:

Hunt for silver Hummer after bashing

 

Hi Prius04, et al,


The H1 is disliked only when its in an urban enviorment, but usually just because its big and at 60 mph the tires are louder than a Jet Aircraft takeof. I have never hand any H1 driver act aggessively with his vehicle, they have religiously driven safely with a good following distance and respect for fellow motorists.

H2 and H3's are a different matter. Both these vehicles are driven to the worse anti-community effort like allot of SUVs.

Its not only tree-huggers that dislike the new Hummers. Even conservatives dislike the H2, because it was the car built to capatilize on the tax-and-spend loophole that lobbiest contrived and implemented. Specifically, the 100K tax deduction for a private buisnes , any private buisness, even the proctologist and accountant down the street, to buy any vehicle over 6000 pounds. The vehicle company lobbiest snuck this past congress and our enviorment, tax money, saftey and travelling peace-of-mind have suffered ever since. All for the benefit of the special interest. And lordy, did you see those H2's tooling around town in people in buisness suits. Not much lately. I think they are parking them and gone out and got a Buick or BMW'r.

Engineers dislike the H2 and H3 because they are 20 year old technology, in a psuedo-military style. The things are all style. Just like Harley Earle, with a different paint brush. I remember when the H2 came out. In my engineering office we were looking forward to what GM could do with the benefit of all the government funding developement work. Kinda like Boeing did and came out with the 707. We were hoping for the 3500 pound V6 Diesel rock hopper (kinda like a mini-Lambo SUV). And then this came out! A guy in my office (nicknamed him Phillerup) showed me the magazine article and our jaws just dropped. How stupid! At the time we did not know about the SUV tax credit.

What gets me is how people get around residential roadway weight limits in the H2 ?

 

Hi Prius04, et al,


The H1 is disliked only when its in an urban enviorment, but usually just because its big and at 60 mph the tires are louder than a Jet Aircraft takeof. I have never hand any H1 driver act aggessively with his vehicle, they have religiously driven safely with a good following distance and respect for fellow motorists.

H2 and H3's are a different matter. Both these vehicles are driven to the worse anti-community effort like allot of SUVs.

Its not only tree-huggers that dislike the new Hummers. Even conservatives dislike the H2, because it was the car built to capatilize on the tax-and-spend loophole that lobbiest contrived and implemented. Specifically, the 100K tax deduction for a private buisnes , any private buisness, even the proctologist and accountant down the street, to buy any vehicle over 6000 pounds. The vehicle company lobbiest snuck this past congress and our enviorment, tax money, saftey and travelling peace-of-mind have suffered ever since. All for the benefit of the special interest. And lordy, did you see those H2's tooling around town in people in buisness suits. Not much lately. I think they are parking them and gone out and got a Buick or BMW'r.

Engineers dislike the H2 and H3 because they are 20 year old technology, in a psuedo-military style. The things are all style. Just like Harley Earle, with a different paint brush. I remember when the H2 came out. In my engineering office we were looking forward to what GM could do with the benefit of all the government funding developement work. Kinda like Boeing did and came out with the 707. We were hoping for the 3500 pound V6 Diesel rock hopper (kinda like a mini-Lambo SUV). And then this came out! A guy in my office (nicknamed him Phillerup) showed me the magazine article and our jaws just dropped. How stupid! At the time we did not know about the SUV tax credit.

What gets me is how people get around residential roadway weight limits in the H2 ?

 

No hate here, but I would never buy one

I respect them for what they are, a very capable off-road vehicle. The bozos that drive it to work everyday in Scottsdale, I have less respect for.

We happened to do a Land Rover outing a couple of years back at the same time/trail as a Hummer dealer. This was a pretty rough desert trail, rated 8/10 in my guide book. Certainly beyond most all other stock vehicles. The H1s were the only ones that came through completely unscathed. Well, technically the Range Rover did too, but there was only 1 so not a good sample size. The Discoveries had 1 flat tire, The H2s had several flats, and a badly bent wheel rim, the Freelander got scarily sideways on a soft bank and took some body damage, and the H3s didn't exist yet. The full size GMC pickup ahead of us destroyed its steering, and had to be pushed off to the side and left there. Sure there are places the H1 can't go due to size, but everywhere else its hard to beat.

However, I would be wary of anyone claiming that even under bio-diesel the H1 is a clean vehicle. I really want to keep my LR Discovery ('99 series 1) mostly for off-road use, and so have been doing a fair amount of research on diesel conversion. So far I have been unable to find a way to make it anywhere near as clean as a modern hybrid, even using a small imported euro-spec diesel. For my example here are some numbers:
--------------------------------------NMOG/----------------------HC-NM-NOx-COMP/
vehicle----------CO(g/mi)-----HC-NM(g/mi)-----NOx(g/mi)-----HC + NOx(g/mi)---PM(g/mi)---Ttl(g/mi)---MPG
'99 LR Discovery-2.3-------------0.3------------------0.1----------------N/A--------------N/A--------2.7-------14
'07 Disc tdi (uk)-0.35------------N/A-----------------0.525-------------0.567-----------0.079-------0.996-----25.6
'07 Dsc tdi biod--0.18------------N/A-----------------0.578-------------0.591-----------0.041-------0.812-----25.6
'07 Jeep Wrng----1.3------------0.036----------------0.02---------------n/A--------------N/A--------1.356-----16
'07 Toy FJcr-------0.7------------0.04-----------------0.01---------------0.04-------------N/A--------0.74------16
'07 Frd Esc Hyb---0.1-----------0.006----------------0.02---------------0.02-------------N/A--------0.126-----30
'07 Lex RX400h----0------------0.007----------------0.01---------------0.02-------------N/A--------0.027-----26

US data from: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/certdata.htm
US MPG from: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ (2008 mixed calulation used))
UK data from: http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/ (conv km->mi, imp gal->us gal)
biodiesel reduction from: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/biodsl/p02001.pdf

The H1 is hard to find data for, as it is tested as a commercial truck, not a passenger vehicle. The closest thing I can find data for is a '99 GM K1500 Tahoe w/ 6.5L diesel. According to the wiki below, the H1 has the same engine, except it has the EGR and catalytic converter removed and a particle trap added. This should significantly degrade emissions beyond what is shown here. Anecdotally I've read that the trap improved emissions by 63%, before that the H1 was 25x dirtier than the dirtiest passenger vehicle the EPA had ever tested (chevy impala).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_V8_engine

vehicle----------CO(g/mi)-----HC-NM(g/mi)-----NOx(g/mi)-----HC + NOx(g/mi)---PM(g/mi)---Ttl(g/mi)---MPG
'99 K1500Tahoe-----2.0------------0.12-------------1.41----------------N/A--------------0.09--------3.62------15
'99 K1500Th biod---1.04-----------0.038------------1.55----------------N/A--------------0.047-------2.68------15

The H1 may be considerably worse than this if its been relieved of its emissions control equipment as suggested. Even assuming its as good as the Tahoe, with 100x the NOx, plus adding PM, and similar everything else relative to the Wrangler and FJ, I wouldn't really call it clean.

For myself with the LR, I have a lot of trouble justifying the reduction in carbon emissions (CO, CO2) against the increase in smog forming emissions (NOx, PM) especially as these have greater local impact. It sort of seems to defeat the purpose of going into the wilderness, just to dump of bunch of crap in the air there. At the same time, the wrangler and FJ are better smog wise but pretty lame on mpg/CO2. And while the Escape and RX400h are really impressive emissions wise, they're not exactly serious off-road contenders.

That pretty much leaves me not knowing what to do. I though a diesel conversion and then biodiesel was going to be the answer, but its certainly not turned out to be the silver bullet I was hoping for. For now driving it as little as possible is the only palatable answer, which is why we're adding a Prius to the stable. An FJ hybrid might do the trick though B)

Rob

 

No hate here, but I would never buy one

I respect them for what they are, a very capable off-road vehicle. The bozos that drive it to work everyday in Scottsdale, I have less respect for.

We happened to do a Land Rover outing a couple of years back at the same time/trail as a Hummer dealer. This was a pretty rough desert trail, rated 8/10 in my guide book. Certainly beyond most all other stock vehicles. The H1s were the only ones that came through completely unscathed. Well, technically the Range Rover did too, but there was only 1 so not a good sample size. The Discoveries had 1 flat tire, The H2s had several flats, and a badly bent wheel rim, the Freelander got scarily sideways on a soft bank and took some body damage, and the H3s didn't exist yet. The full size GMC pickup ahead of us destroyed its steering, and had to be pushed off to the side and left there. Sure there are places the H1 can't go due to size, but everywhere else its hard to beat.

However, I would be wary of anyone claiming that even under bio-diesel the H1 is a clean vehicle. I really want to keep my LR Discovery ('99 series 1) mostly for off-road use, and so have been doing a fair amount of research on diesel conversion. So far I have been unable to find a way to make it anywhere near as clean as a modern hybrid, even using a small imported euro-spec diesel. For my example here are some numbers:
--------------------------------------NMOG/----------------------HC-NM-NOx-COMP/
vehicle----------CO(g/mi)-----HC-NM(g/mi)-----NOx(g/mi)-----HC + NOx(g/mi)---PM(g/mi)---Ttl(g/mi)---MPG
'99 LR Discovery-2.3-------------0.3------------------0.1----------------N/A--------------N/A--------2.7-------14
'07 Disc tdi (uk)-0.35------------N/A-----------------0.525-------------0.567-----------0.079-------0.996-----25.6
'07 Dsc tdi biod--0.18------------N/A-----------------0.578-------------0.591-----------0.041-------0.812-----25.6
'07 Jeep Wrng----1.3------------0.036----------------0.02---------------n/A--------------N/A--------1.356-----16
'07 Toy FJcr-------0.7------------0.04-----------------0.01---------------0.04-------------N/A--------0.74------16
'07 Frd Esc Hyb---0.1-----------0.006----------------0.02---------------0.02-------------N/A--------0.126-----30
'07 Lex RX400h----0------------0.007----------------0.01---------------0.02-------------N/A--------0.027-----26

US data from: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/certdata.htm
US MPG from: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/ (2008 mixed calulation used))
UK data from: http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/ (conv km->mi, imp gal->us gal)
biodiesel reduction from: http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/biodsl/p02001.pdf

The H1 is hard to find data for, as it is tested as a commercial truck, not a passenger vehicle. The closest thing I can find data for is a '99 GM K1500 Tahoe w/ 6.5L diesel. According to the wiki below, the H1 has the same engine, except it has the EGR and catalytic converter removed and a particle trap added. This should significantly degrade emissions beyond what is shown here. Anecdotally I've read that the trap improved emissions by 63%, before that the H1 was 25x dirtier than the dirtiest passenger vehicle the EPA had ever tested (chevy impala).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detroit_Diesel_V8_engine

vehicle----------CO(g/mi)-----HC-NM(g/mi)-----NOx(g/mi)-----HC + NOx(g/mi)---PM(g/mi)---Ttl(g/mi)---MPG
'99 K1500Tahoe-----2.0------------0.12-------------1.41----------------N/A--------------0.09--------3.62------15
'99 K1500Th biod---1.04-----------0.038------------1.55----------------N/A--------------0.047-------2.68------15

The H1 may be considerably worse than this if its been relieved of its emissions control equipment as suggested. Even assuming its as good as the Tahoe, with 100x the NOx, plus adding PM, and similar everything else relative to the Wrangler and FJ, I wouldn't really call it clean.

For myself with the LR, I have a lot of trouble justifying the reduction in carbon emissions (CO, CO2) against the increase in smog forming emissions (NOx, PM) especially as these have greater local impact. It sort of seems to defeat the purpose of going into the wilderness, just to dump of bunch of crap in the air there. At the same time, the wrangler and FJ are better smog wise but pretty lame on mpg/CO2. And while the Escape and RX400h are really impressive emissions wise, they're not exactly serious off-road contenders.

That pretty much leaves me not knowing what to do. I though a diesel conversion and then biodiesel was going to be the answer, but its certainly not turned out to be the silver bullet I was hoping for. For now driving it as little as possible is the only palatable answer, which is why we're adding a Prius to the stable. An FJ hybrid might do the trick though B)

Rob

 

I hate the look of the H2 and H3. I like the H1 but would hate the fuel bill. Since I have to ride in a HMMWV at work I guess I do not need one at home.

As far as what other people drive, if you are willing to pay for the gas you can drive whatever you want. That is the great thing about living in the US (or most other places) is you get to choose. Although I think the price of gas should be increased and the extra given to programs for fuel cell, hydrogen, biodisel, etc research or subsidize truckers (since their gas guzzler actually has a purpose other than recreation). At $5 a gallon people will think twice about driving their hummer as a soccer mom transport.

How is burning veg oil cleaner? Does not burning stuff still put waste into the air? Or is it the carbon neutral aspect?