Why is Toyota limiting production of Rav4 Primes?

Discussion in 'Toyota Hybrids and EVs' started by The Big Sleaze, Dec 27, 2020.

  1. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    but i did with the pip, when i was working, and the sleaze paid for it ;)
     
  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    so much for, "Know your audience" . Or - after so many decades, are we still considered really adapters - so that this demand doesn't really count.

    .
     
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  3. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    So Mike, how many miles remaining are showing after a fill-up now? close to 500 I hope.
     
  4. The Big Sleaze

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    no, I think like others have said its a Batt Production issue, and entire automotive press and likely buyers all went gaga moment Toyota announced specs, mostly the high HP for real towing, and higher EV range and also the higher Govt Gibs for higher EV range. Plus, the Prime concept in something that isn't a Prius.
    What I'm not getting is whats the big hold up with Batt Production, since making very similar Batts for years for Primes, and nothing but great expectations for sales. I guess just being overly cautious maybe penny-pinching no-overtime on the home front.
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    It's both, Toyota put in an order for so many battery cells based on what they expected to sell. Which for 2020, was double what they sold of the Prius Prime in its first few months in the US. Turns out that wasn't enough for Japan or the US.

    The PriusP has been out for years now, so what batteries they are getting for it is close to sales. It is also likely they aren't the same batteries as in the Rav4 as it uses air cooling only.

    They also have ordered batteries going to the BEV for China.
     
  6. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Saw 511 my first fill after the fix, haven't paid attention since. I know that 4 fills at high speed show the needle a needle width beyond F. I gas when convenient for me. Price right, want a lottery ticket, have to pee, wife wants to stop, etc. As long as I get reasonable MPG I don't care about the DTE because I'll stop before that and it is only an estimate. Some are truly anal about it, not me.
     
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  7. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Maybe Toyota needed new gas tanks as well as new batt supply for the Prime?
    I wonder if any of the 2020 RAV4H bugs (gas tank/12v batt discharge) got passed on?
     
  8. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    WJ...

    Aw common...if you follow a Rav4 hybrid, you know that both problems have been solved with a T-SB for the battery discharge and a CSP for the fuel tank. The battery issue did not apply to the 2019s as they have a DCM and firmware that is different from a 2020/2021. Those need the firmware update. Both are free. I don't have a single issue I'd need to go to the dealer for except my free oil change.

    My son just called me telling me his 220k Prius gen 3 needs a new engine or a rebuild or he needs a new car. (I doubt he ever did a EGR cleaning, but practical with cars he isn't) I'm waiting till he stops by and borrows my Rav4h for a family ski trip. Not as big a MPG but I don't want them in his car.

    His choice is complicated by his 15+ year old starting to drive. Does he want her in a new car?
     
  9. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    All this talk of the latest & greatest plugin - perhaps it would be worth going down & check it out today. What with retirement approaching this August, & our 2 homes out-of-state getting snow, who knows, the extra ground clearance & AWD might be nice.
    The manager of Carson Toyota, is/was a really nice gal who used to post regularly here in the Prius & RAV4 EV categories. She offered some great deals, too.
    After searching CarGurus and finding Carson Toyota had a couple offerings that were fully optioned, as well as comprable prices from other dealerships across the Nation - the Drive was no more and 35 miles for us to check it out.

    The sales Critter on the phone said he'd have it pulled out front before our meet up.

    Strike one.
    Not only had Carson Toyota removed their customer's EVSE for those coming from any distance;

    20210101_144709-1.jpg

    Strike two;
    Our personal slimy, over perfumed, lazy sales critter had never even looked to see where the car was, over the acreage, much less get it ready for us. So, standing by the curb, we waited, and waited. When the sales Critter finally found it, & brought it forward (20 minutes later) , it only had ~10%-15% charge to add insult to injury.
    That's my look of disbelief above.
    Strike 3;
    We explained our goal was to get AWD & higher ground clearance, & that one of our 2 out of state properties was a "no sales tax state" .... & we presented from CarGurus 5 other similarly equipped RAV4 Primes Across the Nation, in the mid $40K range (wanting to see if they would undercut a few bucks) as Carson Toyota's online offering was. The sales Creator points to the window sticker, where at the bottom, not only was Carson unwilling to honor their online price, they had added an additional $10,000 to the MSRP.
    Well ... that was 3 hours of wasted research, 14kWh plus wear & tear driving that we'll never get back. Even so - there was a good lesson in it for us. Never never go to a dealership again. Thank-you Carson Toyota.
    One other strategy that hadn't crossed the dialogue on PC about "the battery shortage" for the prime RAV4. Even if the Rav4p is only selling mediocre (much less like hot cakes) - those sales are going to destroy the $7,500 tax credit that Toyota could otherwise be able to apply to their already expensive hydrogen car.
    Plus - the fewer Prime's that Toyota sells, the slower Toyota gets to the magic 200,000 vehicle tax incentive number - which will eventually make they're already heavily subsidized $50k+ Fuel Cell Car a $60K+ fuel cell car.
    So much for knowing their audience. They just chased one of their customers away.
    We'll check back maybe around end of summer to see what the used Market has available ..... what with people still losing their jobs due to covid-19.
    .
     
    #49 hill, Jan 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
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  10. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    That tax credit didn't apply to FCEVs, well, it would if they had a big enough battery.
    FCEV's had their own $8000 federal tax credit. Had is the operative word as it expired yesterday. Maybe that's why the base Mirai got such a price cut from Toyota.
     
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  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Thanks for the correction & clarification! That helps with understanding why hydrogen cars can't afford to go plug-in. Not just hydrogen car plugin higher cost, but the cost they would run - once bigger battery plugin tax credits run out.
    .
     
  12. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Update on Toyota Plugin sales courtesy @Salamander_King


    Do we have a recent count for how many more plug-ins Toyota can sell for the $7500 Fed tax credit?

    According to this site: Federal EV Tax Credit Phase Out Tracker By Automaker: EVAdoption
    Toyota Motor Corporation has sold 127,593 up to June 2020. And 72,407 remaining.

    From this site: Toyota Prius Plug-in hybrid US car sales figures
    Prius Prime was sold 19.951 in 2017, 27.595 in 2018, and 15.705 in 2019. Not sure if this number is just for the US or worldwide. Either way, 2020 sales should be similar, so maybe at most ~10K more in the second half of 2020. That makes roughly 60K still remaining for 2021 and beyond. I did not look up the Rav4 Prime sales but that number should be negligibly small at present.
     
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  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    how will Rav4-prime - ($45K before sales tax price tag) sales go, once Toyota sells the last eligible 70K cars ... much less, dealers' $2,000 - $10,000 markups. No more gouging, after that, one would think. Reading up on the owners board here;
    Does the Rav4 Prime have 12V battery issues? | Toyota RAV4 Forums
    it seems the 12v drain & an EV range drop to 34miles once temps are around 24°f are the only early issues.
    One owner reports (Rav4p in the shop for 3 days) that Toyota engineers are trying to figure the 12v issue out.
    .
     
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  14. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    If RAV4-Prime follows the Prius Prime, it will take many, many years before that happens.
     
  15. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    I'd be surprised if the fix for the 12v wasn't the same as for the Rav4h as the DCM and firmware was probably from the same source.
     
  16. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    I am bullish on RAV4 Prime potential. I see it almost like the Prius of PHEV.
    I might have preferred a Prius v form factor, but we have what we have.
    Just crazy the Hybrid RAV4 looks like a truck and gets same MPG as my trade-in Gen2.

    I am not badmouthing the 12v and gaso tank issues, I should get mine fixed for free at the 10k mile mark. I feel a little like though Toyota USA could be a little more proactive. But I think they have moved to TX and that is prob a new situation.

    From a pro-hybrid perspective, RAV4H and RAV4Prime both at, or over, 40 MPG EPA City. In Washington DC that's when you qualify for tax credit for purchase. I like that DC MPG target policy and neutrality as supposed to mandating a certain technology.
     
    #56 wjtracy, Jan 8, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2021
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Senior Member

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    It's funny how cavalier the manufactures are about nixing the spare, compromising cargo space. Maybe enabled by complacent owners, saying "well you can't have everything".

    The Prius AWD models are a "shining" example: need to put the rear drive components somewhere? Just chuck out the spare.
     
  18. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    Rav4 hybrid has a spare. Costs MPG though I'm sure.
     
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  19. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Yes and the spare is sooo big compared to Prius, I told them I did not want the full size spare tire, But it is min-spare, finally realized oh that is a mini spare.
     
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