Why no hybrid RAV4?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Jul 4 2006, 10:22 AM) [snapback]280724[/snapback]</div>

You were driving a hybrid vehicle and it's ICE, MG1 and MG2 combination were working together to drive your vehicle.

Ken@Japan

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ Jul 3 2006, 08:52 PM) [snapback]280779[/snapback]</div>

I agree. The "most significant" components of the Prius driving techniques would not exist without HSD.

Ken is always right.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Jul 3 2006, 08:22 PM) [snapback]280724[/snapback]</div>

Excellent thread, I particularly agreed with the comment that about changing the laws regarding coasting in neutral. But I read your thread and came away with a completely different conclusion than I got from your post. It's like you delivered the punchline without the wind-up. The punchline is 40 mpg. But the windup was that you were getting 80 taking advantage of the hybrid features. So, beyond Ken's comment, what I came away with is that you cut your mileage in half by overriding the hybrid features.

But point taken: driving a car gently is good gas-saving strategy, and you can get better, maybe even decent mileage, in a straight gas car if you work at it.

What about the RAV4? The best-mileage 2007 RAV4 gets EPA 26 overall, per www.fueleconomy.gov My father-in-law drives, well, like a old man, and in the smaller 2005 he doesn't come close to 26. It's not a very aerodynamic car. EPA lists no manual transmission 2007, but even so, maybe if you drove the automatic gently enough you could squeeze decent milage out of it. But the average person driving a straight-gas RAV4 2WD 4 cylinder automatic is likely to get something in the low 20's overall. I'd say the median self-reported milage was about 23 here:
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/rav4...v4-gas-mileage/

Of course, people tend to report when mileage is good, so ... I don't know. Haven't seen anybody report 30 overall for that car.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(M. Oiseau @ Jan 10 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]373807[/snapback]</div>

I'll go with "often." I mean, sometimes he disagrees with ME!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clintd555 @ Jul 2 2006, 04:05 PM) [snapback]280213[/snapback]</div>

Last October my wife needed an SUV to travel 70-150mi a day for work. Her Grand Cherokee was long in the tooth. She suprised me by showing interest in an 07' RAV4. I new nothing about the redesigned RAV4 when I went to test drive one. I tested a fwd model and loved it! Lots of people room as we are not small people, plenty of head room, easy to get in and out of. We bought a base model AWD with only a couple options not on the well thought out standard list. 22-23mpg from the 4 cylinder engine was a relief from 14-16 in the Jeep.
When I looked at a new vehicle I thought about a fwd RAV4 but to have 2 in the driveway was well.... I wanted great gas milage and had a different outlook on needs and apparent safety of vehicles. I have ridden motorcycles for 25yrs so putting metal around me was a big step up! The Prius had room that most of the Toyota car line lacked. The 43mpg of the first 2 tanks through my 07' Prius that we bought Jan 2 is a big step up from my 04' Sebring at 21mpg in mixed driving. Basically I have better mpg than my motorcycle, when it rains I put my windows up, when it is cold and snows I turn on the heat and go. So far a great car.

 

I'm finding this thread, while old, very interesting. Just before Christmas the anti-Prius was badly damaged when a woman turned left in front of me. While waiting for the insurance co. to decide what to do, I did some research.

It seems the new Honda CR-V gets pretty good mileage, even in non-hybrid form. If you want to stick to an "SUV" (I prefer "four wheel drive station wagon" - there's nothing sporty about a 3500+lb high vehicle), it seems like a good candidate at a reasonable price.

The anti-Prius is being repaired - $6200 damage. The womans car, a Ford Escort, was a writeoff, as would be expected. Luckly no-one was hurt. A low speed (50 km/hr) collision. Basically I took the front off the Escort - right to the rad.

Still wondering how the Prius would do here in Edmonton. Today we are recovering from the blizzard of yesterday. It was -18 C with 70 km/hr winds and 10 cm of snow. NOT FUN! Today it's -28 C, sunny and crisp! So you see why I'm hesitant to move out of "SUV" vehicles. The Highlander Hybrid gets about the same mileage as the CR-V. There isn't much difference in size that I could see comparing them. The Highlander is 600 lbs heavier and about 30% more expensive.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Jul 3 2006, 06:22 PM) [snapback]280724[/snapback]</div>

That's not possible in the Prius. You can certainly try to "fight" the system in the Prius (I've gotten ~30MPG over 30 miles of city driving in the winter this way), but there is no way to drive the Prius "without" its hybrid system.

It's arguable that you could do it in a Civic Hybrid, but, if you could get the ICE started without the IMA system and get the computer to shut up, it's certainly within the realm of possibility.

The Prius, however, can only be in one of two modes without the HSD system - neutral or park. Without MG1 and MG2 working together, it is impossible to start the engine, and, even if you could, meaningful power from the ICE will never reach the wheels (MG1 will turn rapidly backwards, countering any motion of the ICE).

HSD is the starter, the alternator, and the transmission for the Prius. The car cannot move without at least MG1 or MG2 (usually both), and it can't move very far without MG1. It's theoretically possible to operate the vehicle without the battery pack (e.g. by locking MG1 using power from MG2), but you would have trouble accelerating, there would be no regen, and you wouldn't be able to start the ICE. Of course, the computer won't let you do it anyway.

So, no, you didn't operate a Prius without the hybrid system. You can stop the ICE from shutting off (max heat, for example), you can avoid regen, and you can try to drain the battery. But you cannot escape the fact that the HV system - including the battery - is still doing its best to optimize energy usage.

The Prius is not an electric vehicle that has an ICE. Nor is it a conventional ICE vehicle with additional electirc power and efficiency optimizations (like the Civic Hybrid). It is a new design, that combines the ICE with electric motors to replace most of the components of a conventional transmission and engine system.

(FYI - This is why the Prius is so hard to steal. You need to convince the various computers to power on for the vehicle to go anywhere, which, IIRC, requires hacking the CAN bus. Good luck with that one.)

 

The techniques for "non-hybrid" driving were well-described in the
cleanmpg thread, which I suggest you might actually go READ.
.
_H*

 

I don't get it...

Umm, I don't think you can disable the hybrid-ness (if you were) of the Prius. Putting it in neutral I know how to do. Using the physical brakes, not possible unless you're only using the brakes going less than 5mph (or you're using the e-brake only). And you must live in flat land with no hills to get 63.7mpg!

When I drive my Prius, I don't stress if I have to crank the heat and the engine doesn't stop, or if I have to gun it to get around an idiot on the freeway. I drive this car like I drive any other car. And I love it. And my average milage over nearly 2,000 miles is still 42.5mpg. And I am surrounded by hills here.

Dave

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DaveLeePrius @ Jan 23 2007, 05:59 PM) [snapback]379768[/snapback]</div>

I think this is the thread Hobbit is referring too:
http://priuschat.com/index.php?showtopic=2...non-hybrid+mode

 

I met another lady in a local store parking lot with her RAV-4. I was considering a Prius, and still would like to have one, but I don't want to put out thousands of dollars above what I can afford. So I asked her how she liked her RAV-4 and she said she loves it but has one complaint: she only gets about 25 mpg city driving. <_< So...., I guess I will continue to put the money away until I have enough to pay cash and I am satisfied with the choice that I will make.

On another note, the human relations personel where I work found a thread about people who pay way too much money for a depreciating asset: their car. It was suggested by a financial consultant that one shouldn't buy a car worth more than 20% of their yearly net income for the next 4/5 years. So if you were looking at a car costing $25,000.00, make sure that you can afford to pay $5,000.00 on it a year, (including all the interest, ect.) and then keep the car for at least 1 to 2 years after you have paid it off. Then work out a plan to put some money away for your next car purchase and pay for it in cash. Be financial savy and do your research, and find your own financing as opposed to using the dealership financing. One last thing, never lease: it's just throwing money away!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(clintd555 @ Jul 2 2006, 04:05 PM) [snapback]280213[/snapback]</div>

Actually I replaced a 2001 Mazda Tribute SUV w/V6/leather/6 disc/etc. with a 2007 Prius Touring model. Much better ride, less street noise, plus 40 mpg vs. 16mpg. There is no question that the Prius is a better auto than a small SUV. Note that the Prius tailgate lifts like an SUV plus the load entrance is level like an SUV. The seats fold to provide just as much room. You do not lose usuable space vs. a cute-ute. Big change for me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Jan 24 2007, 08:25 AM) [snapback]379751[/snapback]</div>

The ICE torque distribution ratio is always 28% to the sun gear (MG1) and 72% to the ring gear (final drive to wheels).
If the MG1 torque is zero, the ring gear torque is zero.
When you need to drive the ring gear by the ICE torque, you have to activate the MG1, which is a part of hybrid.

Again, you are driving a hybrid vehicle and it's ICE, MG1 and MG2 combination were working together to drive your Prius.

Ken@Japan