Why the Model 3

Discussion in 'Tesla' started by bwilson4web, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. Dimitrij

    Dimitrij Active Member

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    TM3 is not only a sedan (as in 3-box design with a trunk lid and no hatch), but it's also very low - from what I could see, something like 3" lower than the itsy-bitsy Prius C. Those who want a sub $70-80K, 2-box design from Tesla will have to wait until Model Y appears, which looks quite a bit taller in some renderings.
     

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  2. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000, Tesla M3 2018

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    I'd like to see a unicorn
     
  3. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    Notify Plugshare, so they can be added.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    pretty sweet, kinda truck stoppish. nice bathrooms, showers, convenience store, cafeteria. some even have massage chairs.
     
  5. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    Overall height of compared vehicles:

    Tesla model 3 = 56.8"

    Toyota Prius = 58.1"

    Toyota Prius C = 59.6"

    Jaguar i-Pace = 61.3"

    Chevrolet Bolt = 62.8"

    Tesla Model X = 66.3"

    I expect the model Y to be in the 63" - 64" height range
     
  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i'm retired. it will have to be under 30k net.
     
  7. Dimitrij

    Dimitrij Active Member

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    I imagine that if a dealership wants to make their DCFC available to general public they'd notify Plugshare themselves.
     
  8. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    I would be surprised if a dealer even knows what Plugshare is.
     
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  9. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    If not open to anyone, no need to show them.

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  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Any member can add a station. I did with the L2 at Pratt Ave, Huntsville AL.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Hess got out of the retail side.
     
  12. LasVegasaurusRex

    LasVegasaurusRex Active Member

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    Check my forum signature.


    Tesla’s vehicles have a certain je ne seis quoi, a level of sex appeal that can almost but not quite be described. Model S has been my dream car for nearly 10 years now. I was excited about Tesla before the first Roadster was even built.


    That being said, Model 3 is by far the first Tesla even remotely within my price range, and still comes with numerous caveats.


    They're good cars -- not great, just good. Quality is highly variable from vehicle to vehicle, so par for the course for American manufacturers, but substandard compared to foreign makes and very far below Japanese standards.


    This is balanced by the fact that Tesla’s cars are much cheaper to fuel than their gas-guzzling competitors, oftentimes only 20-30% of the fuel cost.


    The problem with the Model 3 is that it’s simply far too expensive for its class. Looking at the MSRP of Leaf and i3, it's a simple fact that EVs are extremely expensive to develop and produce. All the money goes to the drivetrain, leaving little else for the rest of the car. Model S and X are fantastic options because the fuel cost per mile of competing vehicles is downright obscene, up to 5x as much.

    With Model 3 though, it's easy to see why this is a problem. The closest competitors to the $57,200 Premium Long Range Model 3 are the fully loaded Camry Hybrid XLE at $37,825 and the fully loaded Hyundai Ioniq PHEV at $32,995 before tax credit. Even the Prius Prime Advanced offers numerous features, many of them safety-related, that the Model 3 does not. At $34,615 before tax credit one could nearly buy two Prius Prime Advanced, which is a IIHS Top Safety Pick, for the same as a comparable Model 3 which is not. I cede that the Model 3 is sexier than the PPA... but it's not 30 grand sexier.

    Now add to this the fact that Model 3 only saves a few hundred dollars a year in fuel costs, and comes coupled with long wait lines at Superchargers for long trips -- which were supposed to be but are not included in the price, by the way, meaning you now pay with money AND time.


    Beyond the car, Tesla's behavior as a company is troubling to put it lightly; for starters, their accounting and public disclosure practices are borderline fraudulent.


    The blatant disregard for safety and the reckless release of their AP software is simply indefensible, and unfortunately it is innocent drivers on our public roads (not the reckless Tesla drivers behind the wheel, who are somewhere more than 1% but less than 50% to blame) will be the ones who pay the price.


    As Model S becomes older, Tesla's infancy as a manufacturer becomes much more apparent. We are now seeing the development of a very long list of manufacturing defects, for which Tesla fights tooth and nail to attempt to absolve themselves of responsibility.
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    ooh, that's a lot of accusations. i do think a 35k model 3 when available, compares favorably with bolt, leaf and etc.
     
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    hmm ...... i did not know this ...

    [​IMG]

    the longest wait we ever had (in 2½yrs) was maybe 15 minutes - once, & 10 minutes twice, nothing within the past ½ year. The infrastructure gets better each year, too. Recent over the air updates allow you to see on the map screen how many stalls are available (example 10 out of 20 at a given location) That's it. Longest trip over 3000 miles didn't have to wait. The record-setting Cannonball cross-country model 3 trip of something like 50 hours, means they didn't wait. Both times through Vegas, didn't have to wait.
    Still - i suppose ymmv.
    On the other hand?
    We never hesitated buying either our hybrid Lexus or Prius - tho we knew we'd occasionally spend 20 minutes or more in a gas line -

    [​IMG]

    Regularly
    .
     
    #54 hill, Aug 7, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2018
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  15. el Crucero

    el Crucero Senior Member

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    I don't know, Tesla's seem to have higher customer satisfaction scores than Toyota according to CR. And if you look at a recently released sample survey of model 3 owners, somewhere between 80% to 90% of owners are "satisfied" or "very satisfied" in the categories surveyed. Anecdotal evidence seems to indicate that those who aren't satisfied are expecting more from what is really a $35K car without all the extra options that add nothing to "quality" of fit and finish. And then there has been a lot of FUD spread by unverified sources about the quality of the product. Read this survey for yourself and draw your own conclusions. The creators went to a lot of effort to screen out unverified owners.

    Tesla Model 3 Owners Survey - Google Docs


    True, actual savings will depend on how much you drive and the type of driving (city/distance) you do.

    The model 3 is really a $35K car ($40K if you add the premium interior). This price point surpasses any EV on the market today in terms of functions, range, infrastructure, and amenities. And this price point puts it square into competition with the ICE vehicles in your comparison. I realize that the $35K model 3 is not available yet, but it will be in the next few months. Since you have two reservations, you will be near the top of the order list. Your Camry/PPA Killer is just around the corner.

    Again if you check the reports, there is absolutely no wait time at something like 95% of the Superchargers. The impacted SCs are in the inner city of LA and SFO - and Tesla is adding more chargers in those areas to address the need. I have an SC within 4 miles of my residence with 12 chargers. I drive by frequently over the last 4 years and always see at least half of them empty.


    Yes, that has been the short sellers line of attack over the last couple of years. Tesla's financials have been scrutinized in detail, more than most other companies, and the "experts" can find nothing out of line. The "experts" should have spent more time examining Paul Manafort's financials and tax returns.


    Just out today is IIHS testing. Tesla came out on top in Lane Keeping ability. Yes, Tesla needs to improve its Auto Braking but they have the ability to do that with OTA updates. What other car maker can make improvements "on the fly" at no cost to the owner? And remember, it is the driver's responsibility to be fully engaged, despite software and technology, regardless of the make of automobile.

    Tesla Model 3 found to have best lane-keeping by IIHS, fails auto braking test with stationary car along with Model S | Electrek
    And what would those be? And where has Tesla tried to absolve themselves of responsibility?
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    No, the closest competitors are the BMW 3 Series and Mercedes C-class.
    Which start at $35k to $40k, and both can easily be optioned out to over $50k.
     
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  17. LasVegasaurusRex

    LasVegasaurusRex Active Member

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    That is what Tesla claims, and if it were indeed the case I would have purchased both my reservations already.

    But it's quite simply false. I have driven the C-Class, Model 3, and A4 extensively. Model 3 doesn't even begin to compare.

    It's really, really disappointing.
     
  18. El Dobro

    El Dobro A Member

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    They closed their refineries around here, too.
     
  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    my hess truck is a collectible!(y)
     
  20. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    as is my battery operated Texaco oil tanker, bought for just $1.50 & just a few "fill-ups" . My aunt gave this to me for a Christmas present - pre 1965. It was so bitchin I couldn't believe it - as a 7,or 8yr old. Saw it in an antique store a few years ago .... with original cardboard box ($150.00) . The only non-authentic element of this cool toy was an oil slick off the Santa Barbara coast - remember, this was back in the day of single hull "no big deal if it leaks" Texaco tankers.
    [​IMG] Heck - even its batteries leaked - signs of the things to cone.
    Texico ... LOL
    . .
     
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