Why Toyota is not selling electric cars

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by schja01, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. Washingtonian

    Washingtonian Active Member

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    How can you change your electricity supplier without moving?
     
  2. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Our state has deregulated electricity so as dozen other states. What is Electricity Deregulation? – Electric Choice In those states, utility company owns infrastructures for distribution, so the cost of distribution is the same for everyone living in the same area, but energy supply can be purchased from many retail electricity providers. You can pick and choose the one you like. The idea was that deregulation would drive the competition thus bring the price down for consumers, but in reality, it did not. At least not for us.
     
    #222 Salamander_King, Mar 14, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2019
    Washingtonian and Prius from Dad like this.
  3. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    Hydrogen can be cleanly manufactured on site using grid power, solar or wind. No need to transport. Very sustainable. At some point the electric charging stations will also feature other alternate fuels, like compressed natural gas, hydrogen, boriumisplate chromium powder slurry, and petrol.
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  5. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    Well. Let's say that a car (whether BEV or Hybrid) throws off $1000 in profit to the manufacturer. 1.5 million (1,500,000) cars would throw off 1.5 billion dollars ($1,500,000,000) in profit. Whereas, 28,000 cars would throw off $28,000,000. Money is best counted in dollars, not percentages. That's why Apple makes fewer phones but a lot more profit than all others combined.

    Not sure of the timeframe. Let me check with my neighbors, Biff and Marty.

    Natural gas and coal are the biggies for grid power those hungry BEVs require. But the cost is relative. Charging stations are popping up in my area in paid parking garages, with per hour charges for parking required to access the port with the electrons. And, some of those stations charge more for special types of electricity, such as those with special additives like TechElectron that coats the negative parts of the atom with special cleaning detergents and lubricants that add power and longevity to electric drive trains.
     
    #225 William Redoubt, Mar 16, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 17, 2019
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    hydrogen stations are blowing, er, popping up in my area. not.
     
  7. William Redoubt

    William Redoubt Senior Member

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    Not yet, but they will be soon when Hindenburg Energy gets going. Word is that the expansion will explosive.
     
  8. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    oh, the humanity!
     
  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Except it still takes a lot of energy to compress and chill it so people can have a gasoline like refueling experience. the renewable electric would be more efficiently used powering a plug in, or displaying fossil fuel power on the grid.

    Wouldn't that mean Apple makes the BEVs in the example?

    It is a fallacy to assume the two different models would yield the same amount of profit per car. It is also a big assumption that the company making the 28k BEVs isn't making up the volume difference between the 28k and 1.5bil with profitable ICE cars.
     
  10. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    This isn't true.

    If you compare a fuel-cell PHEV to a BEV, the energy loss from running, say, 25% of your miles on the low-cycle-efficiency fuel cell costs you about the same energy as carrying around the 1,000 pounds of batteries it takes to do the same job for 100% of your miles.
     
  11. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I look forward to a 130MPGe FCV.
     
  12. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    I get 170mpge in my Prime and that's because I don't have to to tote around a huge battery. Why don't I? Because the engine and fuel system are close to 1,000WH/kg.
     
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  13. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    The MPGe rating is 133MPGe for 25 miles, which is wonderful. However, your even more impressive 170MPGe is not because of the lack of battery weight, it is due to your efficient driving patterns.
    The Model 3, with “thousands of pounds of batteries” gets 126MPGe, only 5% less. And yes, that number can be beat as well.
     
  14. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    Actually my driving pattern isn't efficient. My route to work is poor on efficiency, with 700 feet of net vertical, lots of lights on the highway, and an acceleration from 0 to 55 while climbing a 7% grade. I also live in Colorado where we have 6 months of cold and 3 months of hot.

    When I drive an efficient route I can get nearly 7 miles per kWh but my long term average including all those trips to work and including all that winter driving is 5 miles/kWh.
     
  15. bisco

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    <popcorn>
     
  16. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    How do people calculate actual MPGe on PRIME?
     
    #236 Salamander_King, Mar 17, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  17. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Miles per gallon gasoline equivalent - Wikipedia
    You need an EVSE that reports the electricity used; perhaps a Kill a Watt can work with the supplied EVSE.
    If the full charge is used, a combined Ev/HV consumption can be calculated using the assumed buffer capacity.
     
  18. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I have a record of kWh used for a charge reading from a kill-a-watt meter. Must MPGe be hand calculated from those numbers? PRIME report daily miles/kWh for any EV run on that day. I thought I knew the definition of MPGe but I am a bit confused now. I thought EPA rated 133 MPGe was just for EV portion of the run, not including HV run. As I understand, assuming 1 gal of gas = 34.02 kWh, 133MPGe is 3.91miles/kWh. And this, in turn, means the 25 miles EPA reported EV range is using 6.39kWh of electricity (25/3.91=6.39) to achieve this.
     
    #238 Salamander_King, Mar 17, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  19. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    That's a Wall to Wheels value. It will be higher than what the car reports it used from the pack to roll down the road, Pack to Wheel. (charging inefficiencies)
    Wall to Wheel is your actual EV driving costs.

    Of course if you use free public charging,,, who cares? :whistle:

    But then with the Prime you have to factor into costs of Gas and un-needed oil changes. o_O
     
  20. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Yes, the purpose of recording that number is so that I can calculate the true cost of operating the vehicle. AFAIK, PRIME shows no MPGe data anywhere, my question was how are people getting that number for their PRIME. Calculated from raw data they measure or using a OBD dongle and app?
     
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