Why Toyota is not selling electric cars

Discussion in 'Prime Main Forum (2017-Current)' started by schja01, Mar 6, 2019.

  1. schja01

    schja01 One of very few in Chicagoland

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    Coasting in Neutral seems to still be illegal in most states.
    Google it.
     
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  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    So too is speeding.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  3. schja01

    schja01 One of very few in Chicagoland

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    What’s your point?
    I don’t see a lot of posts encouraging people to speed.
     
  4. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    You didn't look very hard :p
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    Just sharing how I like to drive. If I had a clutch pedal, I would use it. Regardless, I added an appropriate warning.

    In the early 1900s, transmissions and brakes were not well advanced. If you shifted into a mechanical "N" and began descending a hill, the weak brakes could fail to control the speed and the transmission make it impossible to shift back into a gear for engine braking. So sensible laws were passed to prevent coasting in the "N" gear setting.

    Today's electronic transmissions like the Prius do not have a mechanical "N" and can shift between "N" and "D" at any time. The Tesla has only a single set of gears that are always engaged with the motor. In both cases, the "N" is a control law artifact, not a mechanical "N". It is a poor choice of words, to call it "N" when it is does not disengage any gears.

    Bob Wilson
     
    #325 bwilson4web, Mar 24, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2019
  6. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Correct. It's Max Regen or really low regen, and then make brake heat/wear.

    All I'm pointing out is:
    Tesla's approach is either arrogant or a cheap and strange work-around to not having the hardware or technology to offer Blended Brakes.

    And yet we have people like you offering up apologies for Tesla's model for their Go and Stop Pedals.
    Which is:
    Adopt and develop the skills and attention required to maintain you right foot on that Go Pedal, non-stop.
    You must Micro-Manage all the velocity changes of a Tesla. "No coast for you."

    Some people like this driving style that is forced upon them with a Tesla.

    Some people like to reposition their foot, let the car coast down a hill, shift their butt, adjust the twins, etc., :)
    Without the Brake lights coming on and the car going into Full Regen.
     
  7. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I agree that not having a secondary input for controlling the amount of regen is a lack on Tesla's part. IIRC, the smart ED has paddle shifters, at least as an option.

    Then, as I understand it, the rear seats in the early X's couldn't be folded down. Tesla is a young company; a start up not too long ago. An established car company likely wouldn't make the mistakes, but then tehy aren't makin BEVs

    That implication isn't true. Max regen is engaged whenever the accelerator isn't depressed.

    A lower than max amount can be set by the user, and a user of blended brakes can cause the friction brakes to engage sooner than needed. Both systems can be used inefficiently, and neither is superior to the other in terms of what maximum brake energy can be recovered.

    My point with the train example was that one pedal driving is not the work around. Controlling throttle and dynamic/regen braking through one input on an electric vehicle has been the norm for decades. Blended braking is the work around.

    Porsche or somebody once never installed cup holders in their cars. Now they do because of customer demand. If the public demands blended braking from Tesla, they will offer it or lose sales. Seeing how traditional car companies, that had blended brakes on their hybrids, are making one pedal driving an option, I don't think Tesla will see large customer push for blended brakes.

    People had to adapt when going from the horse to car, and then adapt to all the changes cars have gone through the years. Driving a Model T is not the same as driving a Camry. the new always required adaption from the public, or it failed. Looking at the reservations and sales, it appears the public is willing to adapt to get a Tesla.

    If only someone, like Chevy, Hyundai, or Nissan, also had a long range BEV for sale.:rolleyes:
    I was completely unaware that one pedal driving was incompatible with Autopilot or basic cruise control.
     
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Does it at least have buttons or a stalk to control those, or is it back to the @#$! touchscreen again?
     
  9. Nancy S

    Nancy S Member

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    This is very true. We have a 3 and a Prime. You have to pause and remember for a moment which car you are driving... use the accelerator to back out of the garage in the 3....keep your foot on the brake when backing out in the Prime.
     
  10. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Probably because people assumed that it functioned like a hybrid - regen braking when brake pedal is applied until a certain threshold. I, too, was under that assumption until one or two months ago.
     
  11. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    What good came from the game GM played? Upon using up their allocation of tax-credits, nothing viable for the masses came about. They have an expensive plug-in hybrid that only appeals to enthusiasts.

    Why would Toyota want to do the same? The choice for Toyota to refine their underlying electric-tech while waiting for battery cost to reach a tipping point sure makes a lot of sense. They are setting the stage for high-volume sales to a very wide audience while learning from real-world data they collect. That certainly sounds like a very good reason.

    You mention Kia, Hyundai, and Nissan. Notice how none of them have anything in large quantity yet here. For that matter, how many have you ever even seen on the road? Do you consider the "game" they play better? If so, how?

    Think about where we currently are on the product life-cycle curve for plug-in vehicles.
     
  12. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    I think many of the comments in this thread are rooted in "But... I want it now!"

    I'm hoping there are more choices available when we do our next planned car replacement in 2022. I'm fairly certain there will be a bunch for the next-after in ~2030.

    Every time I visit Los Angeles (4-6 times a year) I get to marvel at the veritable fleets of Primes, Teslas, Bolts, Volts, Mirais, Leaves etc. on the roads out there. Then I go back home where you might see a single EV in a week of driving, and you could fairly call a car "green and clean" only because the owner hasn't bothered to cut out the catalyst in favor of a straight pipe.
     
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  13. schja01

    schja01 One of very few in Chicagoland

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    I can speak to Nissan. Seeing as I’ve only seen two other Primes I’ve seen 3x as many Nissan Leafs.
    J
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Appears to be a stalk.

    This just reminded me that no two car brands I have driven have same controls for cruise.

    Wouldn't that also be the case if the 3 were another car with a manual transmission?
     
  15. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    My 2006 Subaru and my 2018 Prius c have exactly the same CC setup. But then, Subaru borrows a lot of that stuff from the Toyota parts bins... security system/key fob also seems identical.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Need to check out family Hondas when I have a chance. Ford and GM have their own steering wheel buttons in modern cars. '80s and '90s GMs had a stalk for cruise control, which IIRC, was really close to one on my grandmother's late '70s Aspen.
     
  17. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    How would a law enforcement officer determine that you are doing this? If it's illegal, it's unenforceable.
     
  18. jb in NE

    jb in NE Senior Member

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    Perhaps "borrowing" is not the right word. Subaru and Toyota have a business agreement where Subaru pays for the use of Toyota technology.
     
  19. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Not something I would ever expect to result in a traffic stop/citation, for the reason you stated.

    Now... a finding in an accident investigation... that's where it has likely turned up as a legal matter. "I floored it to get out of the way, but I forgot I had it in neutral and the extra delay caused..."
     
  20. Lee Jay

    Lee Jay Senior Member

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    At my office, we have two Prime's, two Volts, two Bolts, one Fiat, zero Teslas and 23 Leafs. I see about 50 Leafs on the road for each Prime I see that isn't mine.
     
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