Featured Will Piston Engines Get Clobbered by Electrics?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by bwilson4web, Feb 7, 2019.

  1. mozdzen

    mozdzen Active Member

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    I'll agree that 200-300 mi of range is a sweet spot. I believe in 5 yrs, it will become obvious that the ICE is on its way out. When sales of new ICE vehicles become rare (<10 %), that I think will happen in the next 12-15 yrs. That long only because car manufacturers can not get their lines up fast enough. I do think that in 8-10 yrs, most everyone will "want" an EV with 250 miles of range. I've driven my 260 mi range model S from phoenix to the middle of Nebraska, using superchargers. On the way back, lunch and bio breaks were all that we needed to recharge - nothing extra for charging only. On the way there - perhaps 1.5 hrs on a 2 day trip was solely for charging. It is getting better all the time.
     
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    In time, they could be. The production chain for ICE cars is large and mature. The cost efficiencies for that are probably fully realized. It will take time for the EV one to reach that level. And then, ICE cars might have a material cost advantage, like iron vs. copper.

    But what type of combustion? The classic piston one in use today, or something else? Rotary, turbine, Sterling, etc.?

    The Fusion is here until 2020, at least.

    There are only two under a 100 mile EVs sold nationwide in the US. There are currently three models that are 120+ miles, maybe more, but those are all old models that have been out for some time. There are two over 200 miles, and all the ones coming are over 200 too.
     
  3. mozdzen

    mozdzen Active Member

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  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    Just for the record, I was being tongue-in-cheek about the Ford Fusion: @bisco had mentioned fusion powered vehicles.
     
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  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The last generation of Ranger was built for 14 to 15 years for the US.
    Ford might still be selling this generation of Fusion when we finally get fusion power.
     
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  6. litesong

    litesong Member

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    Ah.... so I'll be able to wear out my 3 Hyundais, after they reach 300,000+ miles, each. I already have my second-hand alloy wheels & tires lined up to go the distance. When I get a Hyundai EV(same wheel pattern), I'll use the same wheels & tires on the EV & continue my savings of thousands of dollars on wheels & tires.
    Its all dependent tho, if I keep healthy enough to keep driving......... oh, oh! Better drive them cars a lot more!
     
    #46 litesong, Feb 11, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    Piston, cause nothing else works
     
  8. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    You should let the airlines know about that.
     
  9. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000

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    I don't think that this is a "better" solution...other than better than maybe nothing.
    Would these dealer provided fast chargers be open to everyone or just for that brand's customers?

    Look at the Tesla superchargers. Just one brand. Most of them are no where near a dealer of any brand. And most of them have 6 or 8 charging cables, and some have 40. Dealers of conventional brands aren't going to do this, IMO. Just putting in one fast charger is a token solution.

    I had a Nissan Leaf for 3 years. Great car. Did everything, and more, that I expected. The ~100 mile range was about 2/3rds of what would have been what I needed. I had free charging at the dealers. Two of them within about 2 or 3 miles of my home. They were token chargers, probably required by Nissan to be able to sell and service the Leafs. Sometimes they didn't work -- and there was no one to ask that knew anything. Parking and waiting for someone else to finish was awkward. Dealers frequently parked ICE cars in the way. They just didn't care a lot.

    Mike
     
  10. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    A dealer, fast charger should be:
    • Free - dealer customers
    • Discount - manufacture models
    • Full price - all others (aka. EVgo)
    I don’t see stalls until demand increases. It could be tied to warranty intervals.

    Bob Wilson
     
  11. mozdzen

    mozdzen Active Member

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    I don't see dealers doubling as charging stations. This would be ideal for 7-11, Circle K, QT, etc. Even waiting for a 15 min charge, one would be more likely to buy a coffee, soda, bag of chips, hot dog or something else (healthy or not) to consume.
     
  12. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000

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    And
    • reliable
    You get reliability by having
    • Someone there, 24/7 that cares about providing the service...or several stations (at least 2 or 4)
    • phone support that has a clue and knows the status of each station in realtime
    • multiple parking spaces per charge cable as an "on deck" circle if you are waiting that the cable reaches to
    • signage for the closest L2 charger as a last resort

    Mike
     
  13. litesong

    litesong Member

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    EVs...... charge 'em fast, discharge 'em fast, charge 'em to 100% & discharge 'em to 0%, taking full "advantage" of the range, fast charge 'em with hot battery packs, fast charge 'em in the cold..... Throw away 5000 potential cycles....prematurely destroy battery packs. That's OK. I'm rich, will get another EV & sell the bad battery pack EV to someone poor, who'll have to deal with the expense & problems. That's what poor people are made to do.
     
  14. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    if an airplane engine will work for mass produced cars, and it is more efficient and planet friendly, and would likely sell well, i'm all for it. is there some pre conceived notion that's blocking it?
     
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    They'd need to have at LEAST two QC's, each - as they get beat up & become non-operational with all too much regularity. That possibly leaves one running all/most of the time while one is down / getting worked on.
    .
     
  16. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web i3 and Prime

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    So today I drove from Huntsville to Nashville via "Tennessee Truck Stop" and was able to look at the 'false' SOC %. I came to realize the SOC is a voltage metric, not a power, kWh, metric. What happens is in the 90-92% SOC range, below it, there are real kWh available. Above this threshold, the SOC is misleading in a bad way.

    I had noticed that SOC in the low 90% and above, is nonlinear, very shallow. The available power to move the car is thin. But once you get below that threshold, approaching 80-85%, the battery has enough strength and power to sustain the car on a trip.

    The exact relationship is probably vehicle specific but I have some speculations that SOC may be voltage, not an actual power metric. But I also realized there is a way to mitigate the rapidly shallowing, SOC challenge, especially during charging.

    The trick is to enable "pre-conditioning" when the charging power rate first falls off. The grid charger is power limited but as the battery charging falls off, I recommend enable "pre-conditioning" to fill the gap. The heat added to the cabin and battery remains even after the tapered, power to the battery, falls off, that keeps the grid charger in "a good place."

    Bob Wilson
     
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  17. 3PriusMike

    3PriusMike Prius owner since 2000

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    I didn't see anyone advocating to mistreat a battery. The charger in the car automatically lowers the charge rate once the state of charge gets to a certain level. Most of the batteries have a thermal management system as well

    Mike
     
  18. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    I think you're looking for this guy: AB12_15_05copy.jpg
     
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  19. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that's exactly what i would design, if i had no pre conceived notions.:p
     
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  20. kenmce

    kenmce High Voltage Member

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    NOBODY would tailgate you.

    Ever.

    There is a lot of optimism in this thread about electric cars. I still think of them as being an experimental technology. Maybe Hydrogen is a contender. Maybe fuel cells. Maybe compressed air. I don't know. I used to know a guy who did a 100 mile daily commute to wash dishes. Which EV should he buy? I deliberately got a pluggable, not pure electric, so I could go on long trips and not have to scrounge for outlets.

    We're going to have to get a solid lock on range and recharge speed before these things get popular. Right now gasoline seems to hold more power per unit volume than anything else, so it's going to be an uphill battle.
     
    #60 kenmce, Feb 11, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2019
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