Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

You might think that it was Hamtrak that was leveled by an earthquake and tsunami, the way GM produces the Volt. Not to worry though, GM expects to be back up and producing 500 cars a month in no time

 

it is strange to set a quota for the year. finish 4 months early and then go home? does that about sum it up here?? i mean...umm, like ya!! is this how businesses stay in business??

then again, its not like GM has to be solvent now does it?? let me get my wallet out

 

On the GM-volt site there was a report that a GM exec confirmed that their predictions for production in calendar year 2011 included all the MY 2011 cars AND the MY 2012 cars they make from now through the end of the year. If they really do ramp up they might hit 10,000.

 

They make 10K, that will be about right for the 1st year. I don't think they really want to sell to many of these quite yet....

Making too much money on the truck side...

 

OK I will bring it up...
Your lifetime average of 69% EV miles indicates that you also have more than just a few rides in which the Prius PHV would have an advantage, isn't it?

Also, with the PHV highway miles with ICE on should not be added to your 7 miles above, they are part of them.

 

I know GM likes to say the Volt is virtually sold-out, but on autotrader there are hundreds of them for sale. Are these literally not for sale as GM would incline us to think or are people just not interested?

Chevrolet Volt sales plummet during factory shutdown - Drive On: A conversation about the cars and trucks we drive - USATODAY.com

This seems to me a very long time for a car that supposedly has all this pent up demand. Don't dealerships have a list of people they can call? Are not thousands waiting to buy these?

 

On the first point, the way it works out for me is about 4 days of that standard commute and 1 day a week where I go 100 miles or more, mostly out of the EV range. On that one trip it is likely a PHV would get better economy. However, for the PHV I would be burning 14 miles worth everyone of the four days, and lets call it 107 miles on the 5th day (120 mile trip first 13 AER) that is a total of 163 miles outside the AER in a PHV.

Same scenario in the Volt I use 0 miles of gas operation during the 4 days and 85 miles on the 5th day (120-35) for a total of 85 miles traveled outside AER for the week. At the EPA 37mpg that would be 2.3 gallons of fuel.

The PHV would need to get more than 70.8 mpg is CS mode to beat the gas consumption of the Volt. I'd use more total energy with more kwh's consumed, but its the gallons that matter to me.

On your second point, I am thinking of the fact that the PHV may burn gas in CD mode and when it does those miles will still be counting in the electric range. From what I have read I believe that we will find the PHV will consume gasoline in the EV mode operation at a rate of about 150 mpg. But, my opinion is mostly speculative and we don't know how Toyota will ultimately track consumption in the production models yet so I won't argue about it.

I can tell you on the Volt that in CS mode, while racking up what are being tracked by the car as ICE miles, I have gone 2-3 miles at a time in pure electric propulsion, either due to a lot of regen or stop and go traffic jams or coming out of mountain mode. The car doesn't shift back and track those miles as pure EV because that is normal hybrid operation as intended. I suspect the PHV will do the same in reverse and not switch to a different mode of tracking just because you accelerate hard up a hill or on ramp. We'll see.

 

Have you ever called on a car listed by a dealer in AutoTrader? Dealers are not the most vigilant about updating status of a sold car in hope that they'll generate a lead.

AutoTrader is filled with demos and cars that were sold some time ago. The dealer near my office has a listing for a car they sold in April.

When I do a chevy.com search within 150 miles of home, I get 15 hits vs 46 with AutoTrader for 100 miles. I believe the 15 represents actual cars available for sale within 150 miles of me, right in the middle of the East coast rollout states.

 

I've not and this may be the case.

However: GM Confirms Slow Chevy Volt Sales | National Legal and Policy Center

 

just as a general question to people who have a volt... does the dealership make sure your house can handle this car before purchasing?

i'm sure there is a faster charge you can have installed... but people gimp things.. unless the gm engineers and dealers state that your house and lines have to be able to handle x amps so use x wire, people installing will potentially look at the rating on the charger itself and accidentally use the wrong wire. these systems should be overdone, not just good enough.

houses simply usually never feed this type of load through their current setup. (even just to the breaker box) any house over 20 years may require a full service upgrade for a big charger and even the 110 outlets may not be able to handle the trickle charge.

take this in account any time you plug into a business or random place where you are not sure how good the wiring is. a short and burning of a place you meant to charge up at would be one hell of a headache. (potential damage to your car too?.. i would assume any wrong currents and the car breaks the feed)

i've been thinking this pro/con volt thing.. and i really don't get the sizing of the car but i guess it's a good "first concept"...

unfortunetly, in an area like where i live.. the kw rate is too expensive for this car. we are currently at 13 cents. any more usage and we hit a very small 15 cent tier and then it steps up to 20... once this house is set up fully, we will be topping the 15 cent tier... so the volt would charge at 20 cents per kw... 21 to a full charge puts it around 10 cents per mile... that's what my prius does...... actually.. i'm at 9 to 9.5 currently.

i would have to have solar... i'm not sure all that excess solar is worth it though... i guess as cars get more efficient you can use less of that solar and gain a little cash at base price.. shrug..

 

Cobrakid,

There is no analysis of your home wiring prior to selling you the car. Nor for that matter whether you even have a house.

Most homes capable of supporting an electric washer and dryer should be okay. To install the level 2 charger you do need to have an inspection of your electrical system and they have electricians that will evaluate whether you need significant upgrades to home wiring or not.

The charging set up, both on board and in the cord assembly, are very protective of the car and will shut down if it detects any problem or a fault. You can set the 110v to charge at a lower amperage if necessary (just takes twice as long).

I'm not sure where you live but there are often special programs available for EV charging and discounted Time OF Use rates for charging off peak hours (car can be set to only charge in the middle of the night for example).

 

If I didn't need to seat five I would have bought the Volt. There is a $7,500 tax credit for the car making the price more like $32,500. Using a 220 mile round trip 5 times a month, as an example, it would take about 3.5 years to recoup the cost in gas at $4.00/gal.
93mpg Volt/ 51mpg Prius. If you just drive it in town (less than 44 total miles) you would never have to get gas...spooky.
The ride is better, the back up camera is better,the warranty is better, it comes with leather seating which would add to your price. a IV model is around $30,460. Now you're only$2,000 off; making your break even point come sooner.
I have a new III model with NAV. The Volt will only get better. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next five years.
I love my Prius though!

 

ah... my problem there is that in a city like los angeles.. everyone is gas dryer... most of these houses are not designed for 220.

in an older house i wouldn't consider it to be safe to even pull a constant 8 amps on a standard outlet if the lines in the house are crimps instead of caps. (almost anything before 1965) most of the houses out here are older than that... that's why i was wondering.

i didn't see how much the car pulls while charging.. i remember seeing something like 16 hours or so on a 110... that's over 10 amps. 13 amps or so if the charge time is correct.

if the wiring to the plug is 14 gauge instead of 12 gauge.. you'll burn it up. not right away...but over time it will fry the casing because it would get hot. (as stated above, it comes down to the weakest link in your charging line.. most of the time it's the actual line.. every once and a while it's the manufacturs fault because the cord that runs the charger isn't heavy duty enough.

14 gauge runs 15 amps.. but constant is only supposed to be about 10 at max... 12 gauge can handle 20 amps.. but it's supposed to be more of a 15 continuous max...

the left over 5 amps for each rating is for spikes or things like a microwave that only clips on for minutes at a time.. at most a half an hour. starting heating elements, startup fan draws, and other misc things that spike their power needs when starting up.

ok. i'm done.. hehe

 

The wiring concern applies to nearly every PHV and EV.
What do central A/Cs draw?

 

You mean that they don't have 220 coming into the house? That wouldn't even pass code, today. Given the growth of the area, I would think that most houses are less than 40 years old, and would thus have modern wiring, yes?

For ANY house, unless you positively know that the wiring is up to the standards required, I would recommend getting a new dedicated outlet for plugging in your electrical car.

 

Can't wait to find out the August sale numbers!

 

Why wouldn't the 40-mile-range, 50-mpg-depleted, nicely-under-$30k vehicle sell in large quantity?
.

 

Because it doesn't exists. You left out AT-PZEV emission rating.

Come to think of it, Prius PHV would be closer (3 out of 4) to the Volt concept than the actual production version of the Volt.

 

in a city like los angeles, most houses are over 40 years old.

most houses have 220... i'm less worried about that and more about the random 110 outlets that are not designed for an EV. so.. random charge spots... older houses where the 220 charger isn't hooked up right away.

maybe there should be a rule or law.. something... that basically says if you are not sure if a plug can handle your charge and you plug in and fry it, you're reliable... sounds natural... i guess i'm thinking more of a rule to not try random plugs if you're not sure about the wires behind it.... i'm seeing/reading/hearing about a huge majority of volt owner charging up at a random outlet at whatever place.

i just think it's dangerous unless there is a proper charging station or outlet that you know is safe to handle your charge... i also find it kinda poor taste to charge up at a random place that doesn't endorse charging... at least ask and offer compensation... it's illegal to syphon gas...

 

I get what you're saying and people should be careful. I really believe the equipment is sensitive enough to detect a dangerous condition and shut down in most situations. My grandfather's house is about 70 years old and the exterior outlets don't even have a third hole for the ground, I don't charge up there.

I do charge up in lots of interesting places, but I would absolutely never plug in without the consent of the owner. I in no way endorse the theft of electricity. That said, I have never had anyone say no when I ask (as a caveat I always try to find a convenient outlet near a parking space before I even bother asking [but still don't connect to it until I get the ok]).

My area has seen a lot of growth and there are few of those older out of code homes around, most businesses are likewise equipped with modern wiring. Its just a non-issue for me.

Oh and on the charge time it takes me about 10 hours on the 110v (from fully depleted which is rare for me) and about 4 hours on the 240v. If I set the EVSE to lower amperage it might take 16 hours or more but I never tested that setting through a full charge (I did use it once when the GFCI was tripping a lot at work, but that was just before my first cord failed and was replaced under warranty).