Will the Chevrolet Volt be a failure or a success?

Discussion in 'Chevrolet Volt' started by Reginnald, Jan 20, 2011.

  1. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    I can't speak to john's comment but stereotypes often have nuggets of truth in a general sense.
     
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  2. hampdenwireless

    hampdenwireless Active Member

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    No, I think both stereotypes presented (John's Volt one, and the mainstream Prius one) are both false. John's represents his not so hidden hatred for all things GM, the mainstream (again wrong) Prius stereotype is more of an anti-green political statement.

    I can say that I think most Volt owners are electric car enthusiasts who care more about going electric. Maybe a significant number actually DO NOT LIKE GM (or the GM of the past) but are getting the car anyhow because they so firmly believe in the electrification of transportation they are compelled to do it. But they could have many reasons. Without a real non-biased non-political poll we will not know.

    (and on the joke side...)

    Maybe we should just ask both of them. :)
     
  3. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Ironically, they labeled themselves. Some of us, including me, have been fighting that since the very beginning. But the hard push to keep a focus on mainstream consumers fell on the deaf ears. The enthusiasts decided to embrace a stereotype on their own. That appears to be self-deprecating. We'll find out soon enough, as rollout expands.

    .

    Since on the big GM forum they themselves defined anyone who doesn't like the current configuration of Volt as a hater, I guess you're right.

    It's too bad the current "one size fits all" situation is making generalizations so easy. We all know that later when an affordable configuration is offered these arguments will be forgotten, since the needs of middle-market will have finally been addressed.

    But in the meantime, what happens? It's not like we didn't see the return of $4 gas coming.
    .
     
  4. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Amazing how our Gubt. works. Did you know the entire case for Iraq war (Powell at UN, put up by RumBushChen) was based on one singular informant living in Germany at the time, whom they had never met? Forgot his name, was on 60 minutes. And yes, he was a complete sham, admits the 'mobile bio weapons lab' stuff was all made up. 'Course BCR were looking for any case against SH. No offense to the soldiers, just doing their job they are.

    Oh sorry, off topic ......

     
  5. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    And meanwhile, regular Prius may go into shortage this Summer, heck even April.

    And other manufacturers sit back and watch this happen, wondering when their ship will come in. Meanwhile, they could have grown a pair and at least tried to compete, develop a car nearly as good as the Prius (yes, I mean similar in size,shape, everything, full hybrid, not IMA*).

    Geez, how much Prius demand does there need to be before another manufacturer has a real go at it?

    * I sampled Insight II for a couple miles and didn't think it was all that. Kinda jerky getting started and engine comes on too much.
     
  6. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Apparently more. People will, by God, cut back on their kids' college fund before they get rid of their SUV. Perhaps they feel they'll have lost, either in their own eyes or their neighbors'.
     
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  7. telmo744

    telmo744 HSD fanatic

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    Another info to put up for discussion...

    4th month of Volt sales: 608.

    Total delivered so far: 1210.

    http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/gmcom/investor/2011/488366146327MarDel.pdf

    Pure comparison, between Prius sales (NHW10) and this...

    First full year in Japan (1998) 17 thousand were delivered. And by then, no spiking oil prices, no market for "green cars" and absence of electric traction parts (batt, inverters) manufacturers and designers.

    So, "apples to apples", is very easy to find Volt a failure. Or with less criticism, absolutely not a sucess.
     
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  8. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    The standard that GM supporters held Prius to was a minimum of 60,000 per year. That's 5,000 per month... a number which they boasted about surpassing immediately upon rollout. Should we remind them of their own history?

    Kudos though for Cruze. GM tried to milk the SUV obsession as long as possible... knowing the rest of the world liked their compact sedan instead. Now Americans are showing preference for them too.
    .
     
  9. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    What's with the 1.4L mill though? Not sure I've seen one yet here in Bay Area. 'We' like the Civics and Corollas that's for sure.
     
  10. hampdenwireless

    hampdenwireless Active Member

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    I would love to know what production vs sales on the Volt are. Are they just not making enough (production problems or creating an artificial failure like the EV1) or are they making 1000 a month but not selling and just sitting on the lots.
     
  11. gwmort

    gwmort Active Member

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    These are the figures I found on this forum for US sales of Prius the first year they were available here:

    Total units of Prius sold in the US, from launch to Dec 00: 6,401
    mon yr sales cYTD
    Dec 00 1,134 5,562
    Nov 00 989 4,428
    Oct 00 829 3,439
    Sep 00 981 2,610
    Aug 00 788 1,629
    Jul 00 841 841
    Launch to July 01, 2000: 839

    It doesn't look that far off to me "apples to apples".
     
  12. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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  13. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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    They produced 1,986 so far and 1,210 delivered.

    There must be 776 unsold. AutoTrader has 378 of them.

    It appears demand is lower than supply.
     
  14. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    I see some on cars.come most listed at about $44k.
     
  15. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    You'd have to totally disregard the fact that gas is now TRIPLE the price it was back then. Consumers were overwhelmed by MISCONCEPTIONS about hybrids. And many automakers, especially GM, were fiercing fighting AGAINST the progress of hybrids. There were not concerns of oil DEPENDENCY back then either. For that matter, there was almost nothing for ENVIRONMENTAL concerns either. Ignoring all that, you'd still have to dismiss the fact that GM already has a decade of motor & battery EXPERIENCE from EV1, Two-Mode, and BAS.

    In other words, it is most definitely not a proper comparison to numbers back then.
    .
     
  16. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    duplicate post deleted

    .
     
  17. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Hybrids back then were just gimmicks of little practical necessity because they were so much more expensive and gas was so dang cheap!
     
  18. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    $19,995 was how much I paid for mine back in Sept 2000.

    .
     
  19. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    What was the price of a corolla back then, though?

    EDIT: Corolla MSRP for a 2001 as 2/3 of that Prius. No idea on option compare, though, but the math never allowed a first year Prius at gas prices back then (buck/gallon) to be worth while. Case is not such today, that's for certain.
     
  20. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    That assumption of efficiency being the highest purchase/design priority back then is incorrect. At the time, the most important aspect was emissions. It's why the price of gas wasn't as much of a factor.

    Think about where the SULEV rating was at the time and how Toyota strived to deliver a system with a PZEV rating before that category even existed.

    Now think about the emission rating Volt delivers.
    .
     
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