Will the Plug In Prius Save You Any Money vs. the Regular Prius?

Let's look at this a different way
You should save at most 15 miles * 365 = 5475 miles a year assuming 15 ev miles a day, which is likely high. At 87 MPGe that equals 63 gallons equivalents a year versus 5475/50 = 109.5 gallons gas in normal prius . At your $0.14 cents * 33.7 = $4.72 per gallon equivalent of electricity. This comes out to a savings of just under $100 per year.

Now I expect the spread of gas to electricity to go up, and I pay less than that for electricity, but the prius phv won't save you money with those assumptions.

 

I haven't seen numbers that make the Prius plug in worth buying for me. I'd like to have one for fun. If it were a wash or close to it I'd pay the extra just for grins, but it appears that it would be noticeably more/month for example leased or payments or too many thousands out of pocket to purchase, I don't see it happening, unfortunately.

Not sure if I'll buy or lease my Prius when it's up in 2013. I'll have to see then what the REAL cost on these plugins is. Whether there is a premium or not, how the tax credits are panning out, etc.

We could do a lot of miles EV even with its 15 mile range, but even at 18,000 miles/year on our Prius we aren't spending that much/month (~$100 right now) on gas, so I don't know there is a benefit to this.

"fun" factor I suppose is worth something, though. I like gadgets.

 

You need to think long term when fuel goes to $20 gal ($5 Liter). Electricity is renewable and sustainable, while fossil fuels are finite. More electrons can be produced via photovoltaic panels while we cannot create new oil (other than expensive plant-based compounds or very destructive shale oil).

 

Drive 20 miles to work, (15 miles EV 5 miles gas) charge up in the morning, Run errands at lunch (say 5 miles), charge up in the afternoon, Drive 20 miles home (15 miles EV 5 miles gas). That's 35 miles electric and 10 miles a day gas with a pretty average 40 mile round trip commute. You could also charge up in the evening and the go out at night and do more EV miles. No rule says you have to charge only once per day.

 

You certainly could do that, but anyone doing calculations should take their likely charge cycles into affect. It seems like a royal PITA, but lets say you do recharge 3 times a day and go 35 instead of 15 in CD mode. That would be $100*35/15 = $233 per year savings given those other cost estimates. I doubt the batteries will last much more than 10 years given that charge cycle, so you will be hard pressed to pay for the premium through fuel savings. Buy it because you want a PHEV or buy it to save gas, but it won't save you money.

 

I think you missed a step there. Using the EV mode saves 109.5 gallons per year, not dollars. So when you subtract the $4.72, it should be from 109.5 * $3.60/gal = $394. So you save nearly $400/year. Assuming gas doesn't go up to $5 or $6 a gallon in the next 12 years that we can assume the car will be on the road. (Any years that you don't own this car will be paid to you via an increased resale value for the efficiency, similar to how current high-mpg cars holds an increased resale value).

Maybe $500/year is more realistic, 12 years = $6K saved.

 

In California, the value of the HOV (diamond lane) sticker is at least $3000, at least based on market values of used Prii when the (now expired) original stickers had a couple of years left. When you take into account the value of (1) Federal Tax Credit (anyone know how much this should be?) (2) insurance against rising gasoline cost, it seems to me that for anyone who has a place to plug it in at home, the plug-in at $3000 incremental cost is a no-brainer. I do care about the reduced carbon footprint and making a statement about petroleum. I would vote in favor of a $4/gal tax on gasoline and reduced income taxes. I hope that some day our country would be smart enough to see the value in that (perhaps I am a dreamer). I already have my deposit on the PIP and my dealer said that I can expect delivery between March and June. I cannot wait.

 

It's the only way to buy time.
The thing that kinda sucks is the shorter duration for the cars in the HOV lanes on this model as compared to older ones.

And, to get the older yellow stickers, which had a 6 year duration, one could make it happen on a Prius as old as a 2001, meaning you could go get an older used one and get stickers for it. Not in this case. In this case, you're forced to spend a minimum of $33K + tax and title (in CA that's about 9%-10% in sales tax and title depending on your residence of registration) and I think that for those two rerasons, we're going to see a LOT of leases from those who are doing this just for the HOV access again. Leasing means you only pay the sales tax on the use of the car, ie. the payment amount monthly. And, if they don't renew the green stickers for HOV lanes after the 3rd year, you're done with it and can move on to the next newest thing.

THAT is what I think!

 

There is a new study out of UC Berkley that shows that I was right when I told them that dumping the hybrids out of the carpool lane was a bad idea. It seems that it not only made the regular lanes slower it also slowed down the carpool lane as people slow up in the carpool lane when they are passing stop and go traffic in the main lanes.

Booting hybrids from carpool lanes backfires

The results of the study may well mean that they will eventually make solo access to the carpool lane for vehicles with the green stickers permanent.

 

I thought about the Plug-in and ended up getting a normal Prius. I figured it would save me 100 gallons per year (assumes I drive it 330 days per year). Right now gas is $3.20 per gallon for regular, thus saving me $320 per year. But I also figured it would cost me $100 per year in electricity. This is just a rough estimate. So I figure it would save me $200 to $250 per year depending on electrical costs. I got my normal Prius for $1500 under MSRP (they were really dealing here in Arizona), figure a plug in would go for MSRP, so approximately $10,000 more than the normal Prius. It would take 40 years to pay back, too long for me. Gas would have to at least double for it to make economical sense.

However, another way to look at it is if you have the $10,000 laying around making a great 1% in your savings account. Then if you get $220 per year, that's a 2.2% return. Of course, as with any automotive purchase, the $10,000 shrinks as the car depreciates.

 

I highlighted a key point. This is the cheapest gas has been in the last 6 months, so I'm not sure you want to use it as a reference point looking forward the next 10-15 years that the vehicle will be on the road.

Of course, you can't go wrong with a standard Prius, but if all heck breaks loose (we put a few missiles into Iran, say, and they respond by blocking off the Straight of Hormuz), it might be very nice to be able to go even short distances without using any gas at all.

Of course, if you're really into saving money, you might want to get one of these instead. Down in Arizona you could pedal it all year around:

 

Move closer to work? Commute at non-peak hours? Take public transportation, and do something (hobby, work, nap) en route? Bicycle (and overlap your workout with your commute)? Arrange a rideshare with somebody at your office, or find a new friend online? Charter a helicopter?

It's not the only way. But it might be the only way you're willing to accept, given the tradeoffs...

 

I'm sorry - none of these things would really work for me.
I can't move, I own my home and selling it isn't feasible. There's no public transportation between Laguna Niguel and Carson. Forget bicycle. Can't rideshare - my work schedule and commitments are just erratic as hell. The helicopter would burn more fuel than my car... so we're back to PHEV!!

 

Restraining order preventing resale ? WHAT did you do to it ??

 

No, it's HOME.
In many ways, it's both financially silly for me to sell and also emotionally irrational. I'm going to sit tight and pay it off. I have many good, solid reasons.

But, I appreciate your curiousity and concern!

 

No missing steps on my part. I was deducting the cost of those CD miles at the posters rate of $0.14/kwh and toyota's estimate of 87 mpge with epa's 33.7 kwh / g. $394 - $297 is about $100 per year. Your mileage may vary and toyota's estimates of MPGe and EPAs of MPG may be very different than your actual mileage. My mileage is 42mpg in the gen III prius, and my electricity is wind locked in at $0.10/kwh for the next 5 years then it will jump up.

I left the years of usefull life open. I am a phev proponent, and do believe that gasoline prices will increase faster than electricity rates, but... We should be honest about the figures and assumptions. Drop in the figures. Usinging less gas is a good reason to buy the car, wanting the techology is anouther. Lower TCO requires some strong assumptions that IMHO don't make much sense.

What are your assumptions about electricity costs and depreciation of phv versus a gen III prius hatchback?

 

Mpg-e includes the idiotic DOE fudge factor. GIGO

Prius costs about 6 -- 6.6 cents a mile
EV costs about 4 cents a mile

Figure 2.5 cents a mile savings, up to 6000 miles a year,
So savings of 150 dollars a year is upper bound for the right buyer

If you plug in twice a day the numbers look attractive.

 

Perhaps that applies to your area, but I don't think you can generalize the costs like that. In my area, the gas is about $3.75/gallon and assuming you get 50MPG, that makes it 7.5 cents/mile. EV costs are around 4 cents/mile, which changes the "upper bound" to $210.

Charging stations may also proliferate, which could increase the number of EV miles that can be driven.

 

Ryo,

I was trying to estimate the median. For a range that includes say 90% of the continental US, petrol for a prius is 6 - 7.5 cents a mile, and EV is 2.5 - 6 cents a mile. Works out to savings as little as 0, or as much as 5 cents a mile.

 

BentSpace, I think Mitch672 owes YOU an apology. You asked a reasonable question and he gave you a heavy-handed sermon on protecting the environment AND questioned your own motives. While nobody can deny that's a laudible goal, it's not what you were asking and it was beside the point. You wanted to know if the plug-in could save you money. Guess what?: I wanted to know that too.