Will the Plug In Prius Save You Any Money vs. the Regular Prius?

As in most areas of the country, the real estate market in So Cal is down the tubes. Depending on when a house was purchased, one could be "upside down," meaning the house is not worth the balance on the loan, let alone the price originally paid to buy it. The only way to survive is pay off the loan and stay put, hoping the market will return to "normal" someday. A recent expert prediction put that about 15 years out.

 

I think this thread has been discussed enough, the answer is, it won't save you very much, compared to the premium for the PiP. If that's your only motivation ($$$$), perhaps the PiP is not for you. I think that enough apology for me, personally I am buying a Nissan Leaf.

 

Actually, smart money dumps the upside down house on the bankers after a prolonged squatting, and the buys a bank property with cash.

My point, however, was that Dianne confuses 'cannot' with 'does not want to'. -- just as her customers confuse 'want' and 'need'

 

Estimating the median is fine, but then the $150/year savings is median savings, not an "upper bound". An "upper bound" using 5 cents a year savings and 6000 miles a year is $300. I still put "upper bound" in quotes, b/c that relies on an assumption the maximum number of EV miles.

Also, do you have statistical data that 2.5 cents would be the median? 2.5 cents is the average between the upper and lower bound of savings, but the median at the point where half the people save more than that and half save less. The median is based on statistical distribution and may not be the same as the average.

 

And calculation for Slovenia - Europe:
gas price 1.3 EUR/l (6.8 USD/gal)
electircity price 0.08 EUR/kwh (night rate) 0.11 USD/kWh

charge 1 time per day - 8500 km/year - EV (1424 kWh/year = 113 EUR/year)
normal prius - 8500 km at 5 l/100 km (47 MPG) = 425 l * 1.3 EUR/l = 552 EUR/year

At this hight price of gas and this low price of electricity the most optimistic saving is 439 €, of course if you are making only short trips it's hard to keep consumption below 5/l 100 km. And how many cycles does the battery take? 2000? After 6 years can you expect 80% of original capacity?

 

My real point was showing how to calculate OP's question easily; each person can plug in for their local costs. Fwiw, I said "upper bound" in relation to EV miles a year if charging is limited to once per day. That is why my first post on the topic ended with the point that two or more charges a day is in the money.

OP: If clean energy and dirty energy cost the same, how stupid is it to use dirty energy ? If car energy dollars can be kept in the country rather than be sent to OPEC (all else being equal), how stupid is it to not do so ?

Answers: Very, very, stupid.

 

Someone has a commercial right now where they state their electric car costs appx $1.50 a day to drive? I'm assuming this means what he spends on electricity? Is this a realistic number and how many people will be able to plug their cars in for FREE at remote locations???

 

Maybe someone else said this, but the technology and especially the Lithium Ion battery is very expensive in the PHV. I think most people at this point will get it to reduce gas / oil usage and carbon footprint.
It's good to have early adopters so someday, more people can afford this type of car.

That said it would also be nice to get families to transition from the 28 MPG ish at-the-pump Camry to the 42 MPG Prius v or Camry hybrid
which will save about 5 gallons gas pumped in every 400 miles (? 2 weeks worth).

Multiply that 5 gallons every 2 weeks by the xx millions of family cars running around for some serious real world gas savings.

the challenge .... lower the price of hybrids for the masses.

 

Yes it is reasonable number. Right now electricity is cheap relative to gasoline, about 2-3x cheaper per mile. I do not mean to imply you are reducing your carbon footprint, because you are actually using about the same amount of fossil fuel as hybrid Prius (assuming national average elec fuel mix). But elec is cheaper and you are displacing oil, that is really what you are doing. If you live in a state with greener elec, or have home solar PV cells then you are saving carbon footprint too.

PS: Off-setting the cheap elec cost is the big $$$$$ Li battery cost, of course

 

I was just looking on Electric Cars - Charging Stations - Recargo and found a charging location at Paula Casino in Temecula, CA that has blink chargers. They listed the cost of charging at $4 an hour. If this is correct, the PIP would get about 10 miles of range in 1 hour of charging which works out at the equivalent of $20 a gallon for gas to go the same distance.

Charging rates vary quite a lot but if you use an average of 11 cents per KWH then the actual cost of electricity would be around 40 cents. Of course the picture looks a whole lot different at peak rates once you go over baseline where the cost can be as high as 35 cents per KWhr here in So Cal and the same amount of electricity would run you about $1.20

Noel

 

The $1.50 is in the Volt commercial, assuming about 12 kwh at about 11 cents a kwh. Its a good figure for a full charge, obviously the PiP will be a lot less with the smaller battery pack.

Should also note that you only spend that much everyday if you charge from empty everyday, if you drive less you spend less.

I personally charge for free at work so only do about half my charging at home, about $10-15 a month in electricity and buying 8 gallons of gas every 1100-1200 miles.

 

That is awesome they let you charge at work.. I brought up the idea, and even offered to pay for the electricity. Got looked at like I was crazy for wanting to plug in a car, and even after much explination did not get the point across. I just want to plug it in so the TMS can do its thing as I do not really need the charge to make it to work or anything.

 

I agreed to not submit parking expenses for reimbursement when I go to the courthouse in exchange for unlimited electrical charging from an already existing exterior outlet.

Net I am probably saving the firm about $20 a month, but the ability to scoot around as much as I please and never worry about running out of juice is worth every penny. (a typical day with some errands I'm getting 65 miles of electric driving)

 

I heard about a wealthy early Volt adopter who, upon learning that the best and cheapest time to charge was overnight, promptly ordered that all household appliances and pool equipment be run at night to save on the costs of electricity. I wonder if there is a limit on how much overnight use is allowed at the special rate.

Tried to recapture some previous posts on page 4 of this thread so that the update would make sense. (There were comments from other posters, too.)
I have since found on a So Cal Edison website that the lower rate for combined household and plug-in vehicle charging applies from
9:00 pm until noon. In my house, laundry is done in the morning hours, so this could make a diffence for us. SCE even has a calculator that figures your annual savings for switching to a plug-in hybrid, based on your miles travelled and price per gallon of gasoline.

 

Don't forget the tax credit in your calculations. Between the federal credit and my state tax credit, there is more than enough $$ to overcome the premium price you mentioned.

Hybrid and Plug-in Incentives and Rebates - Region by Region | Hybrid Cars

Alternative Fuels and Advanced Vehicles Data Center: Qualified Plug-In Electric Drive Motor Vehicle Tax Credit

 

You can use the following spreadsheet to calculate your savings or co300sts. I'm not an accountant, so the spreadsheet may seem like it needs improvement, which I invite you to do.

In summary, if you recharge once a day, you will save a bit over $300/ yr with gas at $4/gal. So the majority of the cost savings come from the federal and state tax credits.

This assumes the alternative fuel vehicle tax credits survive the budget/tax cuts. I hear they are currently in the Republican's cross hairs

 

I thought now that there are some PIPs out there in the wild, others might be interested in the real-life payback I am getting. In terms of pure dollars and cents, it isn't pretty.

We may be heavy electricity users, but here in Northern California we are paying an average of about 18.7 cents per kWH. Charging once per day means charging up 3.8 kWH of the battery for a total of 71.06 cents, which allows me to drive about 11.5 miles.

Over the course of the year, electricity therefore runs at 71.06 cents x 365 days = $259.40. By comparison, a regular Prius delivering 50 miles per gallon would cost me 11.5 miles / day x 365 days / 50 miles per gallon x $4.20 per gallon = $352.59.

So for the whole year, I am saving about $93.19. With incentives, the PIP costs $5000 more than regular Prius. So $5000 / $93.19 = 54 years payback (assuming the battery lasts that long! )

If your electricity is completely free, your payback will be around 14 years with other assumptions the same.

All that said, we love the car. But either the car price or electricity prices during off-peak hours are going to have to come down in price considerably if the average consumer is ever going to consider such a vehicle.

 

With the fed tax credit and the state rebate, my base model is costing me $2435 more than a 2012 Prius 3. I will be paying about $0.15/kWh to charge, so $0.57 per day, for a total of $208.05/yr.

Keeping your gas figure of $352.59, I am saving $144.54 per year, for a payback time of just under 17 years. It's looking like I will be able to charge at work, so I should be looking at around 8-9 years.

Plus I get a new toy, carpool lane access, and free LAX parking

 

I have seen owners reporting 3.1kWh to 3.2kWh measured from Kill-a-Watt. How are you measuring yours?

 

Car's don't pay you back. Once you realize this, you realize the math is moot.