Will the Plug In Prius Save You Any Money vs. the Regular Prius?

Minimizing money necessarily otherwise spent is still effectively a payback...

 

True. So buy a Tata Nano. A brand new $20K - $30K (or in this case a $40K) vehicle will never win on payback versus cheap crap.

 

My cpa re-tips old shoelaces; I tell him that life is not an equation.

I don't think anyone has mentioned resale value.

last month i sold my old 2006 prius w/111k miles for $10k.

I don't think gas prices will decrease in the next 6 years, so if the plug-in holds approx 43% of it's value, then resale value should be 17,200 on a 40000 vehicle. but, wait, i'm getting 120 mpg! that should bump resale up a bit, eh?

 

You buy a Prius Plug-in because you want more electric, higher MPGs and to use less gas.

I see $100 diff on fuel costs on window sticker between Pip and Pri, ($33k +3.3kTTL) - ($26.5k 2.65kTTL) - $2.5k tax credit = $4.65k, so 'technically' 46 years to earn back cost diff, and that is not considering the cost of replacing that Li Ion traction battery in 10 years (?), which should be $$$.

* PiP base has heated fabric seats (note, CA gets another $1.5k credit, I think). And like crew said, higher resale value.

But, yeah, if you want to save on car costs, buy a 2006 Toyota Matrix to get some hatchback utility.

 

You are forgetting that electric plants do not produce electricity on demand. Coal and gas-burning plants plants don't switch off in the middle of the night. There is excess, unused electricity available in the middle of the night, and using this electricity does not increase your carbon footprint; it merely consumes what is otherwise wasted. Yes, at some point in the future there may be so many electric cars as to negate this, but that's years away at least.

 

I guess it depends on the type of fuel, but I certainly would expect generating plants to scale back during times of lower electric consumption, like by turning off individual generator units. I know that around here, they have smaller "peaker" plants that only come online at times of high demand.

 

... or want to use the HOV lanes. It was very simple for me: the old HOV decals on my 2002 Prius expired, and new ones were available for the Plug-in. At $0.29/kwh at the tier that I am at and around $3.80/gal, the fuel cost is just about the same.

 

Every time someone brings up the "hybrid premium" or in this case, the plug-in premium & the so called payback period, I ask them what's the payback period on that premium sound system & NAV package they got with their car. Or what's the payback period on the bigger more horsepower engine. Or going with 4-wheel disc brakes instead of rear-drums. Or a luxury car versus that of a standard car. Or any number of options and features that add to the price of a car but aren't strictly necessary from getting from point A to point B.

I could have kept my existing 2005 Prius and continued to drive it. I would be saving an infinite amount of money because I wouldn't have a car payment and I was still getting decent gas mileage.

I am saving money with the car, but more importantly, I'm saving time (HOV lane access & having to fill up less often), and that's worth way more than money to me and my family. While the HOV lane access was a factor in deciding to get the car, it was only one among many that influenced my decision to get the car.

 

Last month, I sold my 2005 for 10K w/ 107,000 miles.

 

I agree, I'm only 2.7 miles from work so I was only getting 35mpg in my 2010 Prius. My dealer offered to buy my 2010 Prius and pay off what I owed on the car so I traded it in for a 2010 corolla which also gets 30-35mpg. Getting the PIP will make a difference because there's a 110volt outlet next to my parking spot at my apartment. And there's a charging station 220 volt about a mile from where I work which is currently free to use.

 

That's good to know. I got 3.8kWh from a review of the PIP stating that this was the usable portion of the battery (to give it longer life). If you measured it at 3.1 to 3.2 kWh, I'm sure that is a more accurate number.

 

Although I agree on principle with your comeback quip, what is different about those other high dollar items is purpose. I think for most folks the main (only?) purpose for a hybrid is fuel efficiency/savings. You don't buy a nav package or a V8 to save money so the pay back period is almost instantaneous (every time you use it). Maybe a better comparison is a pickup that is only used a couple of times a year to haul something while the other 363 days of the year it's empty! Another good example seen around here are the pristine, not-a-scratch-on-it-anywhere 4x4's. Yeah, those are getting a lot of off-roading use!

 

The Prius Three costs $25,500. The Plug-in Prius is similar in trim, but also has better alloy wheels, and heated seats, which together are more or less a $750 option

The Plug-in Prius is $32,000 and, in California, comes with $4,000 in total rebates, post tax (you pay sales tax on the $32,000, not on $28,000). So the $4,000 rebate is closer to $3,500.

$32,000 - $3,500 - $750 - $25,500 = $2,250

You pay $2,250 more for the Plug-in Prius in California. Where I live, the electric company doesn't have Smart Meters, so their program is a flat $15/month credit if you agree to charge only off-peak, which pays for the electricity my PiP will consume. (3.1 kW per charge at $0.12/kWh = $11.16, so my electric bill might actually go down, until they figure it out).

A Prius gets 50 MPG, so it costs about $8.00 for every hundred gas miles. If I get 15 electric miles per day, that's 450 miles/month, $36/month, $432 per year. Break-even happens in just over five years. If I'm able to charge at work, five days a week, break-even is in about three years.

Preliminary data from PiP owners seems to be showing better mileage performance than my estimates. In mountainous country, for example, the larger battery can store many times more downhill energy, so the mileage improvement may be much better.

 

How old was that review? Remember, the early model had a larger battery-pack.

Each time I use a ChargePoint station, I check the energy value reported. It's consistently very close to 3.1 kWh.
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Oh, man - not for me. New toy! Green gadget!! And to accessorize my solar panels.

Now, the music system - that's wasted on me. I listen to news or talk to myself.

 

IMHO people considering PHEVs/BEVs should really look at solar.

Consider this theoretical AZ example:

3.15kW Grid Tie PV: $7000 PV Systems :
Installation: $3000-7000 (DIY vs. all professional)
Utility Incentive: -$3150
Federal Tax Credit: -$3000-$4200
State Tax Credit: -$1000
Net Cost: $2850 - $5650

Energy Generated Over 20 years: 101.87 kWh
Equiv EV Miles @ 250ACWh/mi: 407,484
Equiv Gallons @ 50mpg: 8149.7
Equiv $/Gallon: 0.35 - 0.69

If Costco gave you the chance to pre-purchase 8000 gallons of gasoline at 70c/gallon would you do it? How about if it was magically all domestic, and virtually emissions free?

 

I already have that toy. But I agree - whether someone wants a clean, money-savng piece of technology, or just the latest neat green toy, PIPs and solar both qualify.

The good thing about solar is that if you are on a tiered electric rate, and the PIP might push you into a higher tier, having solar could pull you back down. Or to look at it differently, the kWhs that solar generates start off at the highest tier you're in, so even a small system pays off. (Less so in winter, though, with more electric use and less generation.)

 

You'd best pose the question to major companies like FedEx - Delta Airlines - Sparklets Water - etc ... all who regularly spend millions on their transportation upgrades ... simply so they can be more efficient. Ok ... so you wana buy a full price brand new PiP and sell it in 48 month's? Major companies don't do that. Buy it used with maybe 10K miles, keep it for 180,000 miles ... sell it ... and then get back with me. Chances are you couldn't have done any better.

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but that neglects the charger efficiency, right? assuming 85% efficiency, 3.2kwh at the wall = 2.72kwh usable capacity. that jives well with the fact that the pack is 4.4kwh total and the PIP only lets it go between approx 23% to 85% of the full SOC, or 62% of 4.4kwh which is 2.73kwh.

 

The premium is $2,250, not $8,480.