Featured Wisconsin Hybrid Tax- is it legal?

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by hornigio, Sep 29, 2017.

  1. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    It is a Repub/Democrat thing, as well as huge Rural/Urban divide. I have sat in on recent BiPartisan Policy Center panel discussions re: Infrasrtructure..

    Repubs will agree to higher gaso taxes for infrastructure projects, but if and only if we change to a miles-driven gaso tax basis. Repubs do not agree with electrics and a hybrids paying less taxes. The other factor is the Rural/Urban divide, the rural voters feel strongly they get screwed by paying high taxes and not getting services for their taxes, And the rural folks need pick-ups, and they have to travel big distances and burn lots of fuel. By the way, most studies seem to show the rural areas actually do get more than their fair $hare of the pie, but it's the perception that counts re: attitudes, and the rural folks feel totally shafted.

    Where do we go from here? Not sure but if it's like Virginia we will have to do tax increases in a compromise manner that we do not like. Most BEV are probably liberal, so liberals like higher taxes. So do not complain if we switch to miles driven and BEV drivers have to pay their fair share. When we have a tax increase in Virgina, it is bifurcated so the Dem parts of the state have to pay more. We did not accept higher gaso taxes (due to rural opposition) and went to extra sales tax instead, higher sales tax on the Dem/more urban-suburban parts of the state.
     
    #121 wjtracy, Oct 9, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    The Electric Me likes this.
  2. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    I think what needs to be shouted from the mountain tops is that fees are extremely inefficient (half is lost), lead to bigger government
    to collect and thus are anti-conservative And anti-republican
    They are “optional” In rural and not so rural areas.
    I’ve been noticing a lot more expired plates lately .

    Republicans need to come to terms with half of fees being pissed away compared to the 99% efficient gas tax and 94% efficient sales taxes

    The percentage of people who drive is dropping, in my state the number of registrations has dropped from a peak of 8.5 million to 6.5 million and based on all indications will be continuing to drop.
    This means the miles of commercial use vrs consumer will start to favor commercial, many of which are road tax exempt. All signs point to commercial vehicles staying fossil powered for decades.

    concentrating the fees onto individuals at ever increasing rates will speed the trend and the supply and commercial side will need to be dealt with if we want funding as more folks opt out.
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Do any of these studies adjust for the great differences in public vs private ownership in rural vs urban areas? These differences make direct per-capita differences absurd, at least here out west, but I don't yet know of any reasonable way to adjust.

    At least from the Rocky Mountains to the Pacific Coast, rural lands have a far higher rate of government ownership (federal and state) than do urban lands. These lands are exempt from property taxes, and the 'owners' are exempt from paying income and numerous other taxes. But these properties still need many (though certainly not all) of the tax-funded government services provided to private properties too. Plus, the operation and maintenance of these government lands consume tax monies from the treasury, rather than add tax revenues to it. But comparisons per-acre don't work either, because the typical levels of development are not at all comparable.

    Numerous right-wingers have a solution: sell these government lands and turn them into privately owned tax-paying assets, this will help shrink the perceived tax imbalance. But numerous left-wingers and conservationists immediately decry this loss of valuable public assets.

    I don't know how to make a valid urban-vs-rural tax pay-vs-consume comparison, but the ones I've seen appear meaningless.
     
  4. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

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    Not sure...I was quoting a former Pa. Congressman on the BPC panel. We do not have the public lands issue here as much, but Pa/Va have some rural urban divide. Especially in Virginia we expect flip from purple to full-blue in Nov, but til now the rural Repubs had the control of the House/Senate so that gave rural a big voice. Interesting future we face here as the new party takes control soon.
     
  5. bluesight

    bluesight New Member

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    OK...so this is interesting...

    WI DOT is not willing to take any responsibility for categorizing vehicles to be subject to the hybrid-electric vehicle surcharge (that's YOUR $75). Instead, they outsource the whole process to a company called IHS Markit, apparently using some software application called VINtelligence. IHS Markit just gives a final result...in the case of my 2003 Honda Insight, "full hybrid-electric vehicle"...that's $75 please. Since they outsource this, it will likely be difficult (probably impossible) to get the details on the categorization process through open records requests, but I'm trying.

    But, the fact they use IHS Markit is also interesting. See, IHS Markit is into data analytics, but not just for automotive VIN categorization and stuff. Putting on my tin-foil, conspiracy theory hat....IHS Markit is also very into energy sector analytics...and I don't think it is so much for wind and solar. They are owners of folks like PFC Energy...a global energy research and consultancy group...previously known as Petroleum Finance Company. Mainly, it's gas and oil, and maybe a little clean energy mixed in. OK...then the other thing is that, like lots of companies, IHS Markit happens to be a member of ALEC...you know, the folks that write the model legislation that is the basis for the hybrid fees.

    Maybe they are really good guys. It's hard to tell. But I'd be real interested in whether other states are using the same company, and the VINtelligence software, to categorize vehicles for the hybrid taxes. And, if so, how IHS Markit managed to be of so much interest to these states. It looks like a nice, national contribution to the cause.

    B

    PS...the well know vice-chair of IHS Markit, Daniel Yergin, is an apparent advocate for fracking and shale oil extraction. Probably has no correlation...
     
    #125 bluesight, Oct 15, 2019 at 4:12 PM
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019 at 5:44 PM
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    My bet is on graft.
     
  7. bluesight

    bluesight New Member

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    Page 5 of this paper shows in black and white why the ~100,000 gas-only Prius in Wisconsin needed to be penalized with a $75 fee. I knew this was the case (that trying to punish only EVs and PHEVs was not a sustainable budgetary proposition, providing only $.5M in revenue), but I didn't realize that the state actually admitted it in print. So you Prius owners are providing the other $7,000,000/yr. It's interesting to follow the threads!

    B
     
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