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Wisconsin Hybrid Tax

Discussion in 'Local Prius Club Main Forum' started by SDP40F501, Apr 21, 2009.

  1. SDP40F501

    SDP40F501 Junior Member

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    Any of you Madison folks know anything more about what was discussed yesterday in either Budget or Joint Finance? According to the State Journal, a number of proposals (suggested by oil interests) are on the table to plug leaks in revenues from the gas tax and prevent taxes from being levied on big oil, trucking, etc. These include:

    • Raise $15 million by putting a $50 annual surcharge on hybrid vehicles. :mad:

    My boss listened to the proceedings online yesterday and he thought it sounded like it would be a fee tacked on to the registration. That's on top of a proposed $25 increase in all auto registrations.

    How bass-ackwards! We use less fuel, so we need to pay more for the privilege? Puts a new spin on the term "hybrid premium!"

    Anyone know anything more on this one?

    Jim

    WISCONSIN STATE JOURNAL
     
  2. yardman 49

    yardman 49 Active Member

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    Using that logic, they should consider having an "ex-smokers" tax, since they no longer pay into the cigarette tax! :)
     
  3. Toothydaclown

    Toothydaclown #1 Clown----AAONMS----TRIPOLI

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    This sounds like it came from the mind of Governor Doyle (the boil on the seat of Wisconsin government).
    I hope it isn't true. Or doesn't happen.
     
  4. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi Wisconsinites,,

    Last time I checked, you paid more sales tax for your Prius than a lower mileage car. Make that point. The State already got their money. If the sales tax was 10 % , that is about $300 they got at registration over what you would have given them.

    Your need to remind them of that. And then only have the extra $50 per year paid after 6 years.
     
  5. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    Sounds like someone's not up for re-election.

    What a stupid suggestion.
     
  6. SDP40F501

    SDP40F501 Junior Member

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    This morning's Milwaukee Journal Sentinel shows that this proposal has now morphed into a "$50 annual surcharge on plug-in electric vehicles." I wonder how many Teslas are registered in Wisconsin? :rolleyes:

    Doyle seems to be open to any proposal to increase transportation taxes, so ideas like these get considered. Guess we'll be paying more, one way or another (probably increased gas tax).

    Doyle says raising gas tax 'worthy of consideration' - JSOnline
     
  7. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi SDP40F501,

    Its reasonable to tax Plug-ins electric consumption for road repair. Electricity does not have any road tax on it right now.

    Let's figure out at what point $50 / year matches the average Prius driver's tax payment in fuel taxes. This web site ( Gasoline tax information - Wisconsin Gas Prices ) says Wisconsin drivers pay $.513 per gallon in tax. In 12000 miles, the Prius at 50 mpg yearly average pays $123.12 (here in Chicagoland I pay about twice this in tollway fees alone!). A Plug-in Prius at 100 mpg in summer driving, and a yearly average of about 75 mpg (Last I checked, it gets plenty cold in the winter in Wisconsin) is going to pay $82.08. So, the 50 dollar fee seems to overtax the Plug-in driver by $28. Scaling things, it works out break even is at 14620 miles.


    Remember, we cannot compare this to the 25 mpg car driver, because, he did not pay the sales tax equivalent of a Prius at purchase time.
     
  8. accordingly

    accordingly Member

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    Sorry, I'm new here and considering buying a Prius in WI. I can't find anything on Google about this... it seems to me you're implying that there is additional tax on a Prius at the time of purchase that a 'regular' car would not have. Can you explain further please? I assumed 5.5% was the sales tax rate regardless of vehicle.
     
  9. Mike Dimmick

    Mike Dimmick Active Member

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    The Prius is typically more expensive, therefore 5.5% of the Prius sticker price is higher than 5.5% of the gas-guzzler sticker price.

    Over here we have road tax banded by CO2 emissions, and an additional 'alternative fuel' discount. Currently the Prius emits 104g/km CO2 on the EU standard test, so is in Band B (100-110g/km), and attracts a base tax of £35/year. However, hybrids count as 'alternative fuel', so get a £20 discount for an actual price of £15/year.

    The new Prius emits a stunning 89g/km (92g/km with 17" wheels) and so falls into Band A, which is free.

    Unfortunately the Lexus RX 400h still gets a £15 discount despite emitting 192g/km CO2, for a cost of £200/year.

    The worst offenders emitting over 226g/km CO2 pay £405 this year. Next year the prices for the bands are changed and the 226-255 band goes to £425, while over 255 goes to £435. There will also be special 'first year' rates with less-polluting cars not paying road tax in their first year, while the worst offenders will pay higher - in some cases much higher - rates in the first year.

    I personally don't think the bands should be capped - a Lamborghini Diablo emits 500g/km CO2 and should be punished more than a car that emits 256g/km.
     
  10. galaxee

    galaxee mostly benevolent

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    i don't know how/why doyle is still in office.
     
  11. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi Acc...,

    Like Mike said. In my specific situation, I would have bought another Saturn SL2 class car at about $17K, instead of the $23.4 K Prius. That is a taxation difference of $6.4 k. So, if I was a Wisconsin resident I would have paid $352 more.
     
  12. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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  13. accordingly

    accordingly Member

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    Ok gotcha... seems like a silly argument to make because you could also buy a Mercedes S500 getting worse mileage and you'd pay even more sales tax.

    This is meant to offset the loss of revenue from the fuel tax, which unlike sales tax, directly goes to pay for roadway infrastructure. Though I doubt hybrids and electric vehicles are making a significant dent in the wear and tear of the roads just yet, we are contributing less per mile driven than lower mileage vehicles. I would argue we make up for it in different ways, but that doesn't fix potholes.
     
  14. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    My 2000 pound Insight makes significantly less impact than a 5200 pound SUV.
    Shouldn't that be be taken into account?
     
  15. donee

    donee New Member

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    Not quite. A S-500 is heavier and accellerates faster - tears up the roads worse. It should pay more. The more G-s a car pulls, the more it pulls apart the road. The heavier it is, the more it pulls the roadway apart decellerating at the speed of all other traffic.


    The issue apparently is regarding plug-ins. Most appropriate to compare to the non-plug-in version of the same car.
     
  16. accordingly

    accordingly Member

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    A S500 already does pay more in sales tax, but less than a heavier faster car that costs thousands less and tears up the roads worse. Should the owner of a very expensive, heavy and powerful classic car who literally never drives the car pay more for the upkeep of the roads than a hybrid owner with 200,000 miles driven and counting?

    Just because we have paid more or less sales tax on a Prius does not mean we are exempt from contributing our fair share to the upkeep of roadways we operate our vehicles on. That's why sales tax is irrelevant- this has to do with the fuel tax that goes directly to road upkeep. You can find plenty of cars that pay the same (or more) sales tax as a Prius and get considerably worse mileage while being easy on the roads- you could pay $20K plus for a Fit. Spending big bucks on leather, navigation, $3,000 rims and the like has no impact on your use of the roadways.

    Lighter cars cause less wear on the road and are generally more fuel efficient, so the tax applied to fuel purchases was relatively fair and progressive as heavier and more powerful vehicles purchase more fuel per mile driven (and also explains why efficient diesel fuel is taxed so heavily). You drive a lot in a heavy powerful vehicle, you pay more fuel tax. Your car sits in the garage collecting dust, you don't have to pay the fuel tax. The Insight owner pays much less tax per mile driven than the SUV owner, the way it should be.

    The problem is now we are beginning to see the technology that allows vehicles to purchase less fuel than a traditional vehicle while still using the roadways just as much as before. Something has to change in the revenue stream to keep up with the changing trends so we can afford safe and efficient roads. We may eventually get rid of the fuel tax entirely and go to a GPS miles driven tax or something, but we can't radically change things until we have a better idea of what the future holds.

    Whether or not it is in our best interest to encourage efficient vehicle purchases with tax incentives and by how much is what is debatable, the fact that electric vehicles completely circumvent the fuel tax is not.
     
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  17. bat4255

    bat4255 2017 Prius v #2 and 2008 Gen II #2

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    Kinda reminds me of the early energy shortages in the 70's & 80's. Conserve was the catch phrase at the time, so we did. We conserved so much they raise the electric rates because they weren't making as much money. Kinda makes you think that maybe looking out for #1 is a better idea.
     
  18. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    What's old is new again, curious why the hybrid folks in Wisconsin seem to be ok with their registration doubling as long as it's a republican doing it.
     
  19. Kenny94945

    Kenny94945 Active Member

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    And then there's Calif.
    Could be all legislature are realizing that automobile fees can increase the state's budget income.
    Auto reg fee, local reg fee, CHP pension fee, smog fee, tire disposal fee, the .25 per gallon recent increase to the fuel tax, costs for drivers licenses & license plates and there is more. IMO Elec, hyprid, solar, pedal power cars at a $50 increase are getting registration cheap as compare to Calif. Taxes, in general, are just too numerous and when on fixed income...what is one to do?
    Rant over.
     
  20. erch

    erch Junior Member

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    I know this is an old post but I live in ohio and just got my first NEW registration statement from the DMV with the surcharge on it. Now on my son’s 2012 Prius3 he got charges and EXTRA 100$ per year. I no longer own a Prius (sold to son) and I have a Ford CMax energi (plug in) My surcharge for the next year is $200 + the normal fee of 46$ for plates. I am getting robbed. This legislation is out there and being written by the group called ALEC (which is funded by the Koch Brothers). It is wrong and not only does it charge me 5-10 times more than it should ( I am retired and drive about 5000 miles max a year) but it doesnt take into consideration the lower pollution of a hybrid car or the lower weight of a hybrid such as a Prius or insight.
     
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