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Won't Turn Off -- Master Warning Light on (Red Triangle)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by cyberpriusII, Jan 4, 2014.

  1. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    This is the second time this has happened in the past few weeks. Each time at first start in the morning. Each time temperatures had been in the mid-20's (F) overnight.

    Push start button and it seems as if electrical systems "sort of" come on -- there is a low hum of some sort, but the little light in the power button stays a dull orange and the Master Warning triangle as well as several other lights on the dashboard come on (Traction/VSI and some more, I don't remember).

    Gas engine def. NOT running.

    I then hit power to turn off the car and nothing happens. Still "running" although really not, other than some electrical humming. Can't shift into anything (Reverse, Drive, etal).

    It went away after a few moments the first time and the engine kicked on.

    This morning, was doing this for at least three minutes and I finally opened the driver's door to get out and open the hood. Just as I opened the door, the gas engine kicked on and all was well.

    Any ideas (58K on the car). 2008
     
  2. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    An Update:

    Somehow, and I did search, the recent post from stratusfear did not come up. I just found it scrolling through the forum. Car refuses to start, and has several error codes | PriusChat

    In his(?) case, it appears everyone thinks it is the 12-volt battery. does that make sense here?

    I (well, we) have a couple of volt meters -- one an old school analog Craftsman, circa 1970's and a newer digital HomeCheapo job.

    I have no idea how to use them and while he just mumbles something about they are complicated, I suspect husband has little idea either (on our clothes dryer, he messed with the meters for awhile and then unilaterally decided to jump replace something).

    Anyway, I do have a battery charger, which I could hook-up tommorrow morning and that does tell me if the battery is a bit low.

    Any other thoughts, options, is the battery the wrong track?
     
  3. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    The 12V battery would certainly be the first suspect, especially in this cold weather. If you can, connect the voltmeter to either the battery in the rear cargo area or the jump terminal in the engine fuse box. With the car in ACC mode, foot off of brake and one press of Power button, take a volt reading. Then turn on headlights and take another reading. If less than 12.0 V then you need a new battery.
     
  4. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Now, I just need to read the manual for the voltmeter>>>>:confused:

    Thanks for the tip. I really do need to know how to use it and now is as good as time as any.

    Interestingly enough, husband just got off the phone with Toyota dealer. Price to replace/install is $285.

    BUT, the service adviser suggested that the rear hatch may not be getting closed tightly. He finds that is a VERY common situation with the Prius -- and for some reason, door ajar does not always work. He suggested to try charging battery, and then making sure all doors/hatches are closed completely and give that a try for a few weeks before giving up on the battery.

    Now, that may just be a marketing spiel to make it sound as if they want to be helpful, but worth a try I guess.

    BTW, the said replacement/install of Camry Hybrid battery weighs in at more than $400.
     
  5. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Hi Cyberprius. The voltmeters are easy to use, just use your cheap digital one and make sure you have set on the correct range. You want to make sure that the leads are plugged into the "common" and the "volts/ohms" jacks. You DONT want to use any amp or mA ranges or jacks.

    Set the digital meter to the 20V DC range and measure the voltage from the jump start terminal to any good shiny bolt on the chassis.

    Hopefully it's just the 12 volt battery.
     
  6. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    Yes, an overnight charge will help tell you if it is the battery or not. If after charging the car starts with no problem then you know it is the battery getting weak.

    You will probably have to clear the Master Warning Light before it will start. Disconnecting the negative side of the battery will do this. You will have to restore radio presets and maybe reset the window Auto-up feature.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think he was serious, not shutting hatch all the way leaves interior light on and drains battery. if it is bad, or you want to replace it prophylactically, it's a fairly easy replacement, and you can save even more with an optima.
     
  8. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Yes, you could try that.

    What is the purchase price for the 12V battery from the Toyota dealer parts department counter?
     
  9. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Two different Toy dealers, 20 miles apart want $200 for just the battery. Both want $85 to install. I'd probably attempt install myself. Two other dealers, both an additional 25 miles farther away (one north, one south) will take $175 or $180 for the battery, but with the time and distance involved not worth the trouble to save the $25.

    So, I read the voltmeter manual. Set it as Uart noted, hook it to the jump tab and chassis and go from there right. I won't fry anything, right.

    I plan to try it at dawn on Sunday.
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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  11. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    You can try this:

    Weird stuff happening? MPGs dropping? Test The Battery | PriusChat

    We need the second number the load number.

    Also if my car was seeing the 20's I would be running 0-20 weight Mobil 1. The 0 part will make it much easier for the engine to spin when it is frozen. And the synthetic would really help instead of maybe if your now running dino.
     
  12. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    You people have ALL been a fantastic help -- as usual. THANKS so much.

    And, I learned to use the voltmeter -- sort of.

    So, I had to go buy dog food, unless I wanted to repeat the three scrambled eggs and chunks of turkey the canine received this morning. But, that entails a trip to town, which is a 30-minute drive.

    I did not have a chance to test the battery until after the dog food trip. At that time, 37 degrees F., the reading was 12.34.

    I will check again at dawn, when the temp should be a balmy 24 or so....unless I can train the dog to help, have to do all this by myself, because husband took off on a trip.

    So. Ed. thanks for the link to the testing procedure, and I will try to do it, but it would help to have someone else prompting....but, hey, I should be able to do it.

    But, I am thinking new battery is in my future.

    One quick QUESTION. Under the red cap in the fuse box is the jump point....but there is a copper "tab" there as well as a "silver bolt" screwed down. I used the copper tab for my voltmeter connection, correct, right????
     
  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    right again!(y)
     
  14. uart

    uart Senior Member

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    Yep, you can use either the copper tab or the silver bolt that holds it. You'll get the same reading either way.

    That's pretty low for a voltmeter reading straight after a drive. As the battery is charging (typically about 14.0 volts) during the drive, then you'll normally get way overly optimist voltage readings if you measure it straight away after shutdown. Basically the longer you wait the closer it (asymptotically) approaches it's true resting voltage.

    The resting voltage for a good battery would be about 12.5 volts if measured at the jump terminals with the prius in the off state. I suspect yours will be well below this when you measure it again after it's been sitting over night.

    The voltage measurements taken using the alternative non voltmeter method (the MFD inspection mode method) will generally give lower readings. This is because the battery is inherently under some amount of load when performing that test. It's a small amount of load if you're in "accessory" mode, and a moderate amount of load if you're in "ig-on" mode. That's actually what makes that such a good method, putting the battery under a bit of a load gives a result which is much more telling of the battery's true health. Expect about 12.2 to 12.3 from an "ok" battery in "acc" mode and about 12.0 to 12.1 in "ig on" mode.
     
  15. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Hi-
    12.34 sounds groovy but that was right after doggie trip and may have had a good surface charge on it. A false charge if you will that will quickly decay overnight because the battery is bad and cannot hold a charge for an overnight.
    A common malady. The second test the load test will remove all surface charge and show you the true voltage of the battery when its need most under load.

    Check it in the morning. I sincerely hope its good because it sounds awful cold up there. Too cold to take the fingers out of mittens to do any work.

    And yes that bolt in question holds the little vertical metal tab. That tab is where you clamp the jumper cable too. You were right on!

    So many posts of people complaining the clamp won't fit on the bolt itself. But then again side of the road in the night.....
     
  16. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    I agree that the voltage reading is very low considering the car had just been driven. If you have a battery charger, you can try charging the battery for an overnight period.

    The voltage measurement can be taken at any unpainted metal on the positive terminal. You will see that it makes no difference - or if it does, then the nut on the threaded stud needs to be tightened.

    If you decide to replace the battery, note that it is not necessary to remove the red plastic cover over the positive battery terminal. Just lift the cover up sufficiently for access to the terminal nut.

    If you purchase the new battery from your local Toyota dealer, please take sharp photos of the top and side battery labels and post, if the new battery is something other than GS Yuasa, manufactured in Japan.
     
  17. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    And the voltmeter reading this morning: 10.01

    Looks like a new battery is in the future.
     
  18. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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  19. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Don't know if you have an Advance Auto parts store by you but if you buy the Yellowtop Optima online there and pick it up at the store it was like $169 and you get an additional $50 coupon if memory serves me. Thats what I did and my new yellowtop has been doing very well and holding at 12.6 for almost a year now. It was a drop in.
    If you go that route call ahead and ask nicely if they would put your new battery on the charger.
    Sometimes these battery's sit on the shelf for a while and get depleted. That way you won't have to futz around charging it when you get home.

    Brit likes the Exide and that seems like a better battery but not sure if it as available as the yellowtop in your region.
     
  20. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Yeah, but I DID get to learn how to use the Voltmeter....now I am looking for other things to use it on :)

    Pretty much have only NAPA and Carquest and a couple of other parts places close by. There is an Advance and some of the others, but they are some 60 miles away.

    Found this video on YouTube. He makes it look pretty easy. As long as the 2005 is the same as my 2008, looks like something I can do.


    But, one question....is it worth trying to hookup something so I do not lose my "settings." I could hook up a battery charger or another car battery, both are available....or is it no big deal to re-set.