Wozniak cites 'scary' 2010 Prius acceleration problem

Wozniak?s Toyota troubles Video - WittySparks

 

I went through a series of feelings about how things unfolded with Wozniak and his statements about his problems with cruise control.

My first immediate reaction was OMG Toyota does NOT need this publicity right now.

But as the day progressed and I heard more indepth comments from Wozniak, I really felt this "problem" changed from does Toyota have a problem with their Prius Cruise control? to Was this a failure of a Toyota Dealership, The NHTSA and Toyota Customer Service?

I think it's likely what Wozniak is describing is just the cruise control trying to react to his demands, but it is possible that Wozniak has uncovered an potential problem in the way the cruise control reacts at high speed. Because if he is reacting this way, other people will as well. Toyota might have to think about changing how the cruise control applies incremental speed change requests at high speed. But I leave that to Toyota and current owners to worry about, personally I don't think it would ever affect me, because I don't foresee me using cruise control to set a base speed of 85mph.

I don't think Wozniak meant any ill will towards Toyota or Prius. Infact, sounds like he is a big fan of Prius. Seems to me like a person with a degree of celebrity, surrounded by a pre-heated and predatorial media. But when it boils down to it he was simply a new Prius Owner who had concerns about how his new Prius was reacting. He became more concerned in light of floormat recalls and recent issues with Toyota and Brakes. He felt he couldn't get anyone to pay attention--Well, be careful what you wish for.... Whether his concern was based on something "real" or a perceived problem that isn't really a problem is a different matter.

I find it kind of funny that I think if Wozniak would of posted his "reality" on Prius Chat, he would of probably been given the answer he was seeking.

So while I'm more and more convinced this isn't a major problem with the actual software or The Prius, I'm also more and more convinced it is reflective of a problem with Toyota Customer Care, The Dealership and argueably how the NHTSA works. If his name wasn't Steve Wozniak, what you would of had was a private citizen with a concern about how his new car was behaving. Evidently nobody or nothing existed that allowed this private citizen to adequately voice his concern or get feedback that the "problem" was being evaluated. That's the problem Toyota needs to address foremost.

As far as the cruise control goes, perhaps at higher speeds the cruise control needs an override that accepts only the last request? So you don't have impatient drivers hitting the stalk unknowingly, requesting an increase of 15 more mph and then being suprised when suddenly the auto tries to answer that demand. But since I'm not an owner at this time, I'll leave that debate to those that can actually sit in their Prius and replicate the circumstance.

 

It does on mine here in Canada as far as I remember. I'll have to check again!

 

I see your point... and I'm curious to see what that would look like on the display; could you post a pic of the display?

 

Are you sure? I'm talking about the Prius with what we call the safety pack here in Europe. It's the one that has the microwave radar, don't know what is the package number for it in the USA.

Take a look at 2 pictures in this post where you can see the preset radar distance and the speed set on the right side of the dashboard (120 km/h):

A experiência 3G... dia 03... os consumos fantásticos - Prius-PT

 

Check the 3rd and 4th picture from up on this post of mine:

A experiência 3G... dia 03... os consumos fantásticos - Prius-PT

The preset speed is there precisely so that you can know what is the speed the car is going to reach as soon as the obstacle in front of you goes away.

In the 3rd picture I was cruising with no obstacles at the preset speed, and on the 4th picture I was rolling below preset speed due to a car in front of me.

I do believe this panel is the same all over the world... maybe I'm wrong, I don't know...

 

Sounds like what he is describing is a programming flaw, nothing more, and that is what I gather is what he is trying to get across. Most CC will only go up 5 MPH at a time when you tap up or down. The Adaptive cruise control should override repeated up taps. Whether it is a design flaw, or just something overlooked when designed, doesn't matter, but it should be something Toyota should consider revising now that it is out there. The thing is, he brought it to our attention, and that is all that really matters, who cares how it was discovered, not everyone reads and remembers the owners manual, and not everyone is good at PR.

The cracks about his weight were uncalled for, not everyone can maintain a healthy weight, and he does have knee problems so working out to lose weight when you are injured is not something most people can do.

 

I have that same preset speed indicator here in Canada. I have what they call the Technology package, which also has the radar cruise control feature.

 

interesting... there's no such reading in the image Danny used for the PC article; perhaps it's a stock photo that doesn't reflect the actual situation while driving

 

I don't understand this claim. My AT adaptive cruise control does show the set speed on the console. Is this a claim about the non-AT cruise control?

 

Your car is still the same car you purchased. What others say or think about your car will not alter it in any functional way.

I'm watching all of this crap from a barely interested point of view. I cannot afford a new Prius and I'm perfectly happy with the one I already have. I plan to keep it at least 10 years/150k miles to see if I can collect on the HV battery warranty. :madgrin:

I don't enjoy seeing Toyota dragged through the mud, but I do not own any Toyota stock, I don't work for Toyota, don't know anyone personally who does.

Toyota isn't my sports team or political party, just the manufacturer of two of the vehicles we own.

Over on the Ford Explorer forum, some of the members are happy as hell that Toyota is having problems. They hope that Toyota goes out of business. Yea Team Ford! Boo Team Toyota!

I own two Fords also, including a Ford Explorer that was recalled to replace the tires and is currently under recall for a brake switch that can catch fire and destroy the vehicle.

Yea Team! :madgrin:

 

There's not much to understand. I was wrong.
Sorry for the confusion.

 

And, you are pronouncing this because ... (1) You never experienced it. (2) Expertise from your mechanical engineering training. (3) Expertise as an embedded software designer. (4) OTHER ... [BINGO!]

Please explain why -- when there are defects reported in many different areas of the Prius -- there also can not be a software problem. By putting it this way you are disregarding scores of reports by numerous other drivers, categorizing their observations as demonstrably wrong, and basically stating that they really don't know a thing about the car they own and drive.

 

Oh you can be sure of that my friend!

If there was one single report that could have been tested, proved and demonstrated as a real problem, you can bet your eye balls that Toyota would immediately stop the production line to solve it.

For me that's the main difference between Toyota and the rest.

It so happens that no-one can prove a thing, no-one can reproduce the problem, and that's what caught my attention on this case, since he could reproduce it over and over again.

I'm not saying Toyota's at general or the Prius in particular is perfect. No way, just look at the accelerator problem for example.

I'm just saying that this kind of problems are attacked hard when they are diagnosed, and true real problems can be diagnosed. Others like this silly report from Mr. SW just make Toyota look bad, when in fact it's Mr. SW who should be ashamed for not recognizing he was wrong.

You have guys who smoke their whole life and in the end when they get cancer they sue the tobacco companies and win. Want a better example of how stupid your laws and some of your citizens can get?

A lie is a lie, no matter if there is only 1 guy telling or 1 million persons telling it. Don't you forget that. Errors can be reproduced, no matter how hard. I'm a software engineer with almost 20 years of practice, and in all this time there was never one single problem we could not reproduce when discovered, sooner or later.

 

When I want to know the absolute facts, I always listen to and believe: 1) a celebrity, 2) movie star, 3) news commentator, 4) political leader, or 5) media personality. They know everything, never lie, or provide misleading information.

I'm still waiting for Paris Hilton to tell us what is wrong with the Hadron Super Collider and when it will be fixed and fully functional.

Keith :focus:

P.S. If anybody wants to trade-in their new defective 2010 Prius, I have a really nice 1970 Ford Pinto hatchback I'm willing to trade...

 

I'm trying not to pronounce anything beyond my opinion. What I was trying to do was just communicate/share how my point of view about the Wozniak "situation" changed as the information unfolded. Also I felt compelled to try to defend Wozniak, as I really don't think he meant any ill will towards Prius or Toyota, outside of having personal difficulties getting Toyotas attention about what was happening.

Yes, my "opinion" that I think it is probably less a software problem or actual problem with the cruise control and more just a discovered "fluke" in the way it can be made to react at high speeds under a series of very, very specific actions, is only my opinion.

I do say that as a non-owner, I leave it up to owners to deal with this definition. I'm glad Wozniak got Toyota's attention. If it is something that even if not a fatal flaw, but something that can be made better through software change....then by all means make it better.

Floormats, Acellerator Pedals, Brakes or Cruise Control reaction. Mechanical or Software, ultimately my opinion always is, "If it's a problem...fix it. Zip Ties, New Pedals, or Software Change...whatever it takes. I don't think you have to be a engineer or embedded software expert to have a valid opinion on this, but if that is your personal standard...then by all means ignore my opinion because I admit I am NOT an engineer or a embedded software expert.

I am suprised at the hostility at my opinion...it's basicly the same opinion on the matter posted by Danny at the start of the thread.

I'm NOT going to have any hurt feelings if it is a software glitch that Toyota feels can be improved...if so...BIG APPLAUSE for Steve Wozniak...thanks for making things better....

 

Does that Pinto have the Green Vinyl Roof? Those were beautiful. Plus don't underestimate Paris Hiltons knowledge concerning the instaneous creation of black holes....her mind is a swirling vacuum of knowledge...and she has great legs...

 

Most don't, at least when it comes to the Prius. The Prius is a whole new beast to most, and most of these reported problems are nothing more than owners not understanding that which they drive. That and the "me too, the sky is falling" people.

Tom

 

LoL.....

The Ford Pinto... Can you think of any other car that defined the 1970's? It is truly an icon of the period - small & economical during a period of oil uncertainty, and a fiery death trap in case of a rear-end collision. Ford had a perfect solution - do nothing. It was less expensive for Ford to pay-off any victim's family because the lawyers and accounts determined that it was cheaper to bury people than to fix the problem.

As for Paris Hilton,,, only a photograph can adequately describe her attributes...

Keith

 

Are you also going to thank him for tanking the resale value because that is the one constant in these type situations.