Yet another compressor oil question

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Technical Discussion' started by pavan_inferno, Jul 28, 2020.

  1. pavan_inferno

    pavan_inferno New Member

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    Hello,
    I am planning to replace the leaking evaporator, failing compressor along with other smaller maintenance items this weekend. I ordered the Toyota compressor from a dealership and was told it does not come with oil. But the service manual seems to suggest that it comes prefilled and you need to drain some out of it rather than adding more. I will know for sure when I get the parts in hand. Can anybody with experience let me know of the situation with oil for the new compressor ?

    Even if I end up needing oil, I am planning to use HYB-1 from AC Pro over Toyota's magic potion. I am going with denso evap core (DENSO 4760041) since it is the OEM. I am going with a kit from rockauto for drier, expansion valve and o rings (GPD 9443170 ).

    I have gone through the service manual and a few threads here at Priuschat related to compressor and evap core replacements. A local shop has agreed to evacuate the system before the replacement and fill the system up after the repair. I have made sure they have hybrid only equipment. Any thoughts on my approach and part selection from experienced people would also be appreciated.

    My background: I am not a total noob with auto repair. I have done clutch and timing belt jobs in my drive way before (on a miata). For the prius in question, I have replaced the Coolant valve and bled coolant, fixed the dash issue with a replaced capacitor. This is my first post here BTW.
     
  2. Mbwsr

    Mbwsr New Member

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    I can tell you about my compressor purchase for an '09 Prius but hopefully someone with more knowledge than I have about this will chime in and be able to answer your questions. I purchased a rebuilt compressor from a Toyota dealer. I was unsure about the compressor oil also so I poured the oil out of the new unit into a clean container to determine how much oil was in it. I got very little, doubt it was even a 1/4 tsp or so. I added the recommended amount back to the new compressor, I think it was 4 oz. but you should check the specs. The expansion valve is mounted on the evaporator and requires removing the entire dash. I replaced the evaporator, expansion valve, condenser, and compressor. I added a capacitor to the combination meter while I had the dash out. Three days later I had it back together. Be sure to remove the HV disconnect on the HV battery before starting and when you plug the disconnect back in remember to pull the lever down to complete the reconnection of the disconnect switch. I forgot to pull the lever down and was scratching my head for awhile until I read a post on Priuschat and stumbled across where someone mentioned pulling the lever down, a light went off. I knew that and had done it in the past when working on the hv battery but I had forgotten it. This simple little oversight will have you scratching your head for sure.
    The expansion valve is quite the job and probably can't be done in 1 day.
     
  3. pavan_inferno

    pavan_inferno New Member

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    Thanks Mbwsr !
    Thats great info and I appreciate you sharing details from your repair experience. I am guessing I will have to take a call on the oil once I have both compressors on a workbench. I am planning to do the expansion valve along with the evap core which are both under the dash. I am prepared for the carnage and a weekend long job! BTW I did that capacitor fix last year when the display was going out at random times. Will keep that battery lever tip in mind.

    I may post pictures and videos from my job if everything goes according to the plan.
     
  4. lech auto air conditionin

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    Compressor manufacturers can change their methods of shipping compressors at any time. At one time from DENSO I always could rely that the compressor would be filled with a full charge of oil for an entire brand new system. But as a couple years ago this is no longer the case on standard piston type compressors.

    Now we’re talking about electric compressors from DENSO and they were being shipped with a complete charge of oil For the entire system.
    If you are being told that they do not contain oil in the compressor this could be a new change by DENSO if in fact you are getting a OEM DENSO compressor.

    You will have to go through the procedure like the post above told you drain out the oil and measure it to confirm that you do or you do not have refrigerant oil in the compressor.

    Since you are not using the original equipment DENSO dryer sock that goes in the condenser when you pull it out compare it to your new one from rock auto I’m curious was it smaller and lighter ?. You pay for the quantity of desiccant material even though it’s a very cheap product some manufacture skimp and hold out an ounce or two and give you a big partially filled sock. Wait to hear for your reply on that answer
     
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  5. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I am planning to replace the leaking evaporator, failing compressor along with other smaller maintenance items this weekend.

    Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

    Keep repeating the above phrase, you're going to need it..................because that job is certainly the Gen 2 Prius Valley of Death.....
     
  6. lech auto air conditionin

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    You had me laughing with tears coming to my eyes as I’m driving. That is so true if you’re a first time do it yourself taking apart a Prius dash to replace a evaporator. It will strain your belief in religion and you may think there is no god after this evaporator replacement.

    But what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger. If you decide to take on this mission and you are captured we have to deny we know you.
    Good luck James this message will self-destruct in 10 seconds
     
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  7. pavan_inferno

    pavan_inferno New Member

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    You have me scared straight :LOL:. But I am going into this more prepared than my usual 'wing it' philosophy.
     
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  8. pavan_inferno

    pavan_inferno New Member

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    This message is posted since I couldn't post a long post about my AC repair. Cant post links unless you have had 4 posts and been a member for more than a day. This is my 4th post BTW.
     
  9. pavan_inferno

    pavan_inferno New Member

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    All done ! I did end up having an action cam running during the disassembly on the inside. The footage was useful at some spots when I couldn't remember where things went. I havent't uploaded the disassembly video though.
    Let me divide my post into sections for better readability. Here are some pictures and a video which y'all may find useful :

    1. Drier sock: (@lech auto air conditionin): Old sock which came out was 72g and felt a little sticky. The new sock from Rockauto 50g. The old one was intact but had black color on the bottom which i am guessing is metal dust. Wasn't sure whether the old is heavy because of the water vapor it soaked up. See pictures
    IMG_20200801_201332391.jpg IMG_20200801_201405675.jpg
    2. Lubricant: (@lech auto air conditionin ): I could only get about 20ml of oil out of the old compressor. It also had a dye in it. Managed to squeeze out the last few ml when I opened that hex bolt on the old compressor (did not touch that on the new one). The new compressor from the toyota dealership came with its own wire which plugs in. The new compressor had about 85 ml of clear oil. I did the formula given by service manual => oil to pour out of new compressor = 100 ml - (oil out of the old compressor) . That gives me 80 ml to pour out, which means I had to pour back in only 5 ml. That did not sound right. I went with pouring 25 ml back into the new compressor, which is equivalent of pouring out 60 ml. (Now I have 60ml of the expensive stuff !). Not too sure what I did was right; I went with my discretion. I am open to being corrected. See pictures
    IMG_20200801_203445767.jpg IMG_20200801_203453788.jpg IMG_20200801_202614252.jpg IMG_20200801_205637230.jpg

    3. Resources I scoured:
    i) Service manual for the car
    ii) Threads from Priuschat:
    iii) Youtube videos:

    4. Additional suggestions for folks who want to tackle this job:

    i. GPD 9443170 kit that I ordered from rockauto came with the wrong 14mm hex plug screwed into the condensor holding in the drier sock. The original was plastic, and the kit contained a metallic part with wrong size. So I ended up reusing the old part after replacing the o ring and lubing it up. See pictures
    IMG_20200802_101717462.jpg
    ii. For replacing the drier sock, you dont need to remove the whole condensor. I removed a few bolts securing the condensor and pryed it up slightly (may be 1/2") so that there is enough clearance for the above 14mm hex plug to drop. This would be helpful if you are only changing the drier sock and not the whole condensor. See pictures
    IMG_20200802_110830523.jpg IMG_20200802_110847322.jpg
    iii. Nothing worse than needing one little part despite all the planning and prep. For me, it was the 4mm hex bolts which attach the refrigerant lines to the expansion valve. I found those pretty badly rusted. I decided to clean em up and reuse them with some ND11 on them. When I cleaned them up with a wire wheel, there was a lot of pitting. I would have gone with new bolts, but I was not in the mood for hunting down metric bolts in a standard country on a weekend during a pandemic. I am hoping this piece here spares somebody the kind of anxiety that will keep me up at night. See pictures
    IMG_20200802_081632110.jpg IMG_20200802_074723921.jpg
    5. Final thoughts: It was a grueling weekend with a looming feeling I wont have a working car on monday. My suggestion is to not lose hope and keep at it. I would not suggest taking this task on for beginner DIYers. Finally, I have vacuumed and recharged the system at about Sunday evening. Recharged it with 460 g of refrigerant and made sure that the pressures were in spec according to the manual. I am thankful for the wealth of information on these forums and hope my writeup here helps someone in the future. Here are some additional pictures from the job.
    IMG_20200802_075255060.jpg IMG_20200801_211443.jpg IMG_20200801_211449.jpg IMG_20200801_211335.jpg IMG_20200801_211417.jpg IMG_20200801_211436.jpg

    Cheers,
    Pavan
     
  10. lech auto air conditionin

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    Prius needs to give some sort of Award to a do it yourselfers member who takes on and completes this task.(y)
     
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  11. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    I am officially :notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy::notworthy:. ( I was looking for a 'bowing down' version but couldn't seem to find one, so that will have to do...)
     
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  12. pavan_inferno

    pavan_inferno New Member

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    Thanks for your kind words. :D
    I got the old compressor apart and was trying to find something obviously wrong with the old part. Here are some pictures of the old compressor. When the system was charged, high side was lower than spec and low side was higher than spec with this old compressor. I couldn't find any chunks in the compressor like the ones I 've seen on a thread on these forums. I couldn't find any metal shavings, chunks or deep scoring inside. I did find more oil in the compressor which I couldn't just drain by tilting it. At this point I am assuming that the electric part might've bit the dust. I do not want to spend more time on the old compressor.
    IMG_20200803_191038794.jpg IMG_20200803_191044059.jpg IMG_20200804_200856986.jpg IMG_20200804_200930820.jpg IMG_20200804_201434375.jpg
    Any thoughts on what could've gone wrong in this case ?
    What are the common modes of failure on these compressors ?

    I am also curious about the bolt heads on the ones holding the connector in place. They look like some sort of tamper proof heads. But this is the first time I came across these which look like a flower. I tried googling... but couldn't find anything on them. Does anybody who what these heads are called ?
    IMG_20200801_202603848.jpg
     
  13. アレン・スピクタロン

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    So the compressor uses in total 100ml of ND-11 oil?

    Also great post and thanks for sharing your journey, looks fun but a difficult task to do. Useful information too.
     
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