Your opinions on 2012 engine failure

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by BoydG, Oct 9, 2019.

  1. BoydG

    BoydG New Member

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    Thank you for your opinion and analysis.

    Thank you for the input and pictures. I will ask the installer to look at the pistons for comparison.

    I am not finding the post on the class action lawsuit.
     
    #21 BoydG, Oct 18, 2019
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 18, 2019
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i haven't had any luck either. i think the problem is that it is not mentioned in the title
     
  3. BoydG

    BoydG New Member

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    I contacted the mechanic who did the engine replacement yesterday to ask him if he used the egr from the JDM engine or moved the old valve from the 2012 over. He said he used the old 2012 valve on the new engine. What all should I address to try to prevent another failure with the new engine since the consensus looks pretty strong that it was a coolant system issue that caused the problem?
     
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    It's debatable, but my 2 cents:

    Coolant got into the cylinders because the head gasket failed.

    The head gasket failed because of elevated combustion chamber temperatures over a protracted time.

    The elevated combustion chambers were due to clogged Exhaust Gas Recirculation system. The latter is instrumental in keeping the combustion chambers lower. The EGR system is a new design for gen 3, and woefully inadequate, prone to inexorable clogging.

    The clogging of the EGR circuit may also have been accelerated by the propensitiy of the Positive Crankcase Ventilation system to dump an oil/water/gas oleo into the intake manifold.

    Solution:

    Clean the full EGR circuit, the intake manifold, reclean after another 50K miles, and set a service for future cleaning based on how much fresh carbon has accumulated.

    Also: install and an oil catch can. Monitor it more frequently at first till you get a feel for how fast it fills.

    The simplest way to see where you're at with the EGR, is to check the degree of carbon build up in the EGR pipe, a stainless steel connecting pipe between the EGR valve and intake manifold. Watch @NutzAboutBolts video #16 here:

    Nutz About Bolts Prius Maintenance Videos | PriusChat

    Two or three other videos linked there too, for the full cleaning of the intake manifold, full EGR clean, and Oil Catch Can install.

    Good thread:

    EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | PriusChat

    Another:

    Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock! | PriusChat

    Some tools worth having:

    E8 Torx socket (mandatory)
    E6 Torx socket (optional, but good to have, to remove the throttle body studs from intake manifold)
    3/8" ratchet wrench, regular and long handle, flex head, you can never have enough (or 1/2 plus reducer)
    1/4" ratchet wrench, or 3/8" to 1/4" reducer
    Ratchet extensions: you can never have enough
    Long needle nose piers, straight and bent tip
    Ratcheting 12mm box wrench (optional, but makes disconnection of the EGR cooler from exhaust easier)
    Torque wrench (3/8" and 1/4" both good to have)
    Floor jack and safety stands (or ramps): basically some method to raise front, if you need to take underpanel off, which you may need to, both for access and to recover dropped items.
     
    #24 Mendel Leisk, Oct 24, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2019
  5. BoydG

    BoydG New Member

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    Since coolant had been leaking into cylinder 1 about 6,000 miles before the failure, and from general consensus, it seems that it probably was a head gasket failure. I had thought that the coolant leak was stopped and the head gasket was sealed. I treated the system with K-seal and GM cooling system seal tablets which stopped the cold soak rattle that I had experienced and I changed the spark plug cylinder 1. The check engine light went out and the loss in gas mileage had returned. I had told the dealership about the cold soak rattle much earlier but they told me they could only make a diagnosis if it was happening at the time. Finally the dealership diagnosed the coolant leak at 213,187 and gave me an estimate of $4,700 to replace the head gasket. That is when I did some research and treated the car with the K-seal and tablets. The check engine light never came back on again so the previous opinions by the dealership and the shop that put in replacement engine that the car ran out of oil was what I had believed but I wanted to start this thread in Prius Chat because I still had doubts based on no leaking oil under the car, the spray of oil on the back window and the oil under the car after the engine failure.

    What is most important now is that there is not a repeat problem with the replacement engine. I called the mechanic who did the replacement and found out that he had taken the old egr valve from the 2012 engine and put it on the replacement. I am not a very knowledgeable person on cars. Should I have the valve replaced with a new one or have it inspected? Also, Bisco had a post about a clogged egr circuit. What should be done to address this potential problem. Is there anything else I should be addressing with the old parts that came off the 2012 engine. I did have a new water pump installed with the engine swap.

    Additional note-I just found this post at Toyotaowners.com about an extended warranty for a sticking egr valve and cold start rattle. 2010-2012 Prius Sticking Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) Valve Warranty Extension ZF3 | TOYO Headquarters
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk 'Orrible Oracle

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    I think your best bet with the EGR is to read up, watch the videos, and then DIY. It's hopeless, and very expensive too, to get "pros" to properly resolve the issues.

    More'n likely nothing needs replacement; thorough/complete cleaning is all that's required.
     
  7. Dxta

    Dxta Senior Member

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    You don't need to replaced the valves
     
  8. tvpierce

    tvpierce Senior Member

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    I'm suspect of the coolant/hydrolock theory. I don't see how it would even be possible for an engine to hydrolock while running at highway speeds.
    Here's my rationale -- please correct me if my logic is flawed.
    Say the engine is spinning at 3500 rpm. That's 58.3 revs per second. Because this is a 4 stroke engine, half of those will be compression strokes, so that's 29 compression strokes per second. I wouldn't think a fire hose could introduce enough fluid to hydrock the engine in 1/29th of a second.
    Additionally, 200 degree coolant endering a 700 degree combustion chamber is not going to remain a liquid for very long.
    I think the tech who did the engine swap is probably right: the engine ran low on oil, and self-destructed.
    Or so it seems to me.
     
  9. cnc97

    cnc97 Senior Member

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    The combustion chamber volume is only about 55 cubic cm, or 1.85 oz. it wouldn’t take much coolant at all to fill the combustion chamber.

    A slow leak from head gasket would burn off, but a sudden failure of it would overwhelm the cylinder quickly.
     
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