Just installed my 2nd user enginer 4 kwh kit.

from what I have experienced so far that method works, but acording to my kill a watt ( I did buy one as you sugessted ) I pumped an extra kw beyond that point, granted some of it got blead by the shunts, but again that is most dificult the first time you bring a pack in balance, there are some odities like the end cells act funny, on the enginer display cell 9 displays funny under load, it is still too soon to say, I have to put it through a few cycles first but so far I like what I see.
I was considering plugging the bms 16d into the pack only to use for a display and added protection in case the Zephyr ever fails, and to have some sort of an in cab display, haven't yet considered what to do about lvc for the zephyr, your relay Idea is the simplest, I have the LVC set at 2.7v, the enginer has it at 2.5, guess it will have to do it for now, not that big of a difference, actually I just got an idea, this could probably work for the cell log setup too.
on the enginer system there is that phone cable that goes from the swich up front to the converter, should be pretty easy to figure out which wire turns on the converter, I am going to have a look and run that wire through the zephyrs circuit, I can't believe I haven't thought of it sooner I was going the other way and tap into the bms circuit, I still haven't come across any real diagrams for this setup, it's like a trade guarded secret or something, no one knows what the wires between the bms and converter are for

 

2007blueprius...

the BMS im going to be using is very much like the minibms. and it is a commercially available system.
the control box was about $350, and the cell modules were about $12 each. one per cell.
or in my case, one per 2 cells, as i will be running them in a 16s2p configuration.

as for your idea on switching the converter off via the zephyr, i like it. no reason it shouldn't work well.
i will be retaining the switch up front for the DC-DC, but there will be no connection between the new BMS and the converter. i will be using a contactor that will disconnect the converter from the pack at 3.0V per cell, or 80% of the rated ah of my pack.

plus, the new BMS has a bar graph display that will sit up front and display the SOC of the pack.
it won't be cell level display however, just a general SOC display.

 

if you end up getting your new BMS to shut off the converter let me know how you went about it, you say there wont be a conection to the converter but then you mention a contactor that will shut it off, kindof going against yourself,
so far there are 3 posibilities to go about it,
the old bms did it through either that phone cable or the 2 wire that was going to it from the converter, I have no Idea how and none of the original installers or tecks if they are still arround ever asked the question, there are no manuals or diagrams that I could come across, and for the most part the official answear to any question is send it in for a replacement. my guess is the old bms shorted couple of those wires, because the converter will run without a bms so it has to be some sort of a close circuit type of signal, it almoast seems that md teck/enginer whomever was really behind this sistem, if they could not figure it out sure as $hit wont let anybody else fix it all that design is more classified than area 51 and most of the specialists involved in the project don't even understand the question, looks like all they ever did swap parts, and if it's beyond unpluging a conector or taking a philips screw off we just dont speak of that kind of stuff don't even ask, it's majic, I dare any of those involved in the project who claim to know anything about this system to pin point which wires and how the bms comunicated with converter, tell you what I wont hold my breath thou.
couple other ways to go about it which is a hack basicaly is to have the bms through a contactor either cut the batteies off, or like anthony sugested cut the HV connection which would be easier to work with. that's almoast like putting a picture frame together using a pneumatic pickhammer.
one thing that crossed my mind the other day was to simply have the contactor cut off the on/off swich in the dash effectively turning it off , just as the user otherwise would, at least its a low voltage type of sicnal rather than cutting the main, I installed the system myself and even that dam swich upfront has a circuit board built in, unfortuately that is my weakest point I am much better with a 5 lbs hammer than I am with a volt meter, it took a fair amount of restraint to even work on this, difference is I have no problem accepting the limits of my intelect nor do I claim to know comething I am clueless about.
As for the cost I may have gone over $200 by a bit, not counting my time nor the exchange rate, as for my time it was more of a benefit than a chore/expense if you will, if anything I am that much smarter now, I've learned several things that I was in the dark till this point, and I havent even covered the tuition as far as I am concerned, the Zephyr was a gift for trying

 

yeah, ill be using a contactor, to handle the disconnect of the 48V pack from the DC-DC once either a LVC or low AH event is triggered.

for this system, im having the BMS programmed with a nice easy 3.0V per cell LVC, and im also using the 80% principal for AH on the discharge side. so these cells should never see lower than 3.0V in normal use. the BMS counts AH, and monitors pack voltage for its's SOC calculations, and uses the cell modules for balancing and the HVC / LVC functions. HVC is set at 3.60v (the bypass will turn on at 3.60v) and they have less than 2.5ma draw at idle, plus a safety disconnect if a cell should ever get to 2.60V.

im getting closer to my install date too
just waiting for the last lot of parts to arrive from the other side of the country.
i hope to have those by the 9th or 10th of January. then the install can start...

i have had to turn the system off completely in the car, and boy i can really see the hit on fuel consumption already....

even with the limited use i did have, i was getting about 65-70 mpg, now with no kit, im getting closer to 50 mpg...
looking forward to seeing how it goes once it's all up and running again.

Jason.

 

50 is great, here in michigan particularly in Detroit, they are too liberal with the road salt, and that stuff just eats up rockers and brakelines and we have been getting lots of snow lately, the prius is my nicer car and I am a gearhead at hart, this is just my atempt to keep up with the times, thing is I kept my older cars for winter use, so now we are using our old cavalier, since it's allready rotten, which I used to think it was economical, most people still do, great car but realisticaly maybe it gets 25mpg city, boy does it show, it is kindof nice do go backwards at times bit of an eye opener going from 50 to 25 sitting on probably 80mpg, I want to do a testdrive I just don't know what's worse at this point, paying for the extra fuel/a carwash everyso often and the underwash is crap ( I checked several places ) or welding up rockers in a few years, I hate that I'd rather drive in the snow or stay home, just the other day I was helping my brother with his truck, I think is a 2007 and the we could not take the lower A arms off the alining bolts are rusted solid on the bushing wristpins, I had my big gun on it, heat, ended up destroing the bushings dam thing wont come off it's one piece now, I have tinkered enough with such stuff at this point my whole family has a spare to rag on in the winter, my dad has a brand new focus, parked, I have a nissan pulsar ( EXA in your part of the world), in storage, my truck same,
it's horible Detroit is a very dirty city in that aspect this time of the year and it's all about that lawsuit happy american mentality, if youre a dumbass and can't wach your step it's somebodyelses fault you fell, so sue them, that's why they salt the piss out of roads and sidewalks it's all white either snow or salt on the ground.
anyway just a thought, the 48v line it's probably the worst place to tap into, that is where there's most amps thicker wire, you need the largest contactor/relay.
Anthony sugessted the 220v line would be a bit easier smaller gauge wires, less amps either way effectively cutting the discharge converter would probably be iddling, I like to keep things the way they were intended when I can, I think it would be best to duplicate the original BMS signal which is likely a normaly open type circuit, proble is there are no diagrams I could find for this circuit, when I find some time I will see agout tapping into the dash swich and just use a small relay to simply turn it off for me, I'd much rather work on a phone cable than what is that 4 awg 50 amp circuit, you need a heavy relay for that and likely contacts will wear fast that kind of juice arcs pretty good, you can weld with those packs if you had to, just a thought.
I set mine at 2.7, I could have done 3v, either way I ran the numbers and a good balance is more important the converter quits at 47 total or so I heard if they are in good balance LVC won't be an issuue and if it is you need to replace some cells
all in all just a few years ago this kind of mileage was scifi or just for those with too much money and a green hart, I am pretty actious to get mine back in the car, I was planning to keep the original bms just for the displey thou that is a POS too, not sure but I may just wire it to the pack only, I tried to charge through it but as soon as the charger went into CV it cut it all off, it won't let power through unless is 10 amps or so, it's almoast like they designed it on purpose not to chatge lithium properly.
are you using your old charger?
George

 

http://www.enginer.us/img/BMS16DManual.pdf

I may be onto something here, page 5 describes connections to the converter, no idea what the 8 pin is for doesnt' say but it does mention the 300w older converter does not have the 2 wire cut off signal ( got to read between the lines I guess ) , this is where it gets hairy, I have to be carefull experimenting, I read through those forums that one can run the system with the bms off, that tells me that circuit is likely normally open, I am guessing the bms shorts those wires to shut off the converter, but if my guess is wrong ? who kows what color the magic smoke will be, the other question is does it short it and stay shorted or just a small impulse? I hate this, electronics is not my comfort zone to begin with but that would be the place to wire up the new bms, the Zephyr has a 12v output to either drive a relay or a buzzer, also has some temporrary interupt type of circuit, it could dive a regular automotive relay ( I think ) and those are normaly open, energised short.
does anybody know any better? if not I'll be sure to let you know if I cooked it or not either way, that is the place to tap in, see if your ev shop can figure it out, they may have fancier equipment like current analizers and such, they aught to be better qualified than me to reverse enginer this dam thing, I have been googleing MD teck, I heard these inverters are retrofit solar inverters, either way I came up empy it's almoast like these components fell off a truck or something no paper trail.

 

the contactor that i got is rated at 750Vdc and 150A, yeah, i know it's overkill in this situation...

i will try to find out if the 2 wire from the converter is a NO or NC type,
and maybe the BMS can directly interface with it in this way, and avoid the need for a contactor....

the BMS i have can switch DC loads directly, up to about 40A with no need for contactor or relays so assuming we can discover what the 2 wire connecter requires, this indeed would be the simplest solution...

i too once owned a Nissan exa N12 Turbo. 1985 model. fun little car.i think you guys called them a sentra at the time ?
Nissan stopped selling the exa here around 1995 or so, and now all we have is the plain pulsar...

i will post my findings about the two wire connector once we get going with the install.

edit: i wont be using the stock charger.
i purchased a TCCH 25A charger. this should allow much faster recharging.
i will keep the original unit as a back up, just in case i have a failure in future.

Jason.

 

I JUST READ THROUGHT THE INSTRUCTIONS FOR THE PACIFFIC EV bms
They tapped into the phonecable for the dash swich, doesn't say how, looks like an assembly of premanfactured components, celllogs and balance boards, hobbyking stuff I think, I am not the wiser, I;ts a great sollution for one that has to hire an installer not for me, 350ma shunts, impressive for a comercial unit, mine is rated for 1 amp, I had it up to 2 amp or so, they were that bad, had to stop and let it cool off, plug and play who knows how manyu cycles till it finds it;s balance.
that 2 wire should be NO, supposedly you can run the system without the bms so it has to be NO, an automotive relay would do the trick and I got plenty of those, I am a bit afraid to short those wires not knowing any better.
George

 

yeah, i would also assume it's a NO type, and it's shorted for the turn off.
i have very temporarily used the kit with the BMS switched off, just to test that it works without the stock BMS, and it does indeed work, so it is most likely a NO type, but as you say, is it just a momentary short, or is it a more latching type...

i will talk to the guy that's gonna help with the install.

i wanted to use the pacific ev BMS, but they never responded to any of my emails, and then i discovered (through another forum member) that it will not work on 240V....

Jason.

 

not sure why, other than the relay that cuts the ac input maybe, oyu got more than twice the shunt now

 

update on my kit progress...

i got an email from the EV shop that im dealing with. they sent the remainder of the order today, express post
so, i should have them remaining parts Thursday, or Friday at the latest.

the plan is for a Saturday install.
if all goes as planned, i will start a new thread and link to it here...

now the waiting begins...

Jason.

 

let me know how you make out, weather here is bad so I've put it all on hold, I am mostply curious if your shop figures out how to shut down the converter without massive overkill contactors, should be simple for one that knows this stuff, I'm mre the type of plug it in and see if it blows

 

he seems to think it will be a NO type deal, but said he will investigate more fully once we get going with the install.

 

it's got to be at least in theory, keep me posted, I have put mine on the back burner, we got hit with a decent winter this year, my prius is parked for now

 

all of the parts i need have now arrived.

the install will go ahead tomorrow. i will start a new thread when i get home after the install.
the camera is charged up and ready...

here are the BMS and the Cell modules.



EV power of WA supplied the BMS. it's their own in house design



again, EV power designed Cell modules. 16 of them. 1 module per buddy pair of cells.

Jason

 

link to new thread....

Enginer PHEV kit Rebuilt with quality components and new batteries | PriusChat

 

update here for the info on the BMS16d 2 pin connector.





Vincent took the opportunity to disassemble the BMS16d and inspect he 2 pin connector.
he found a small relay that has NO type contacts.

so for anyone that is interested, simply shorting these 2 wires "should" turn the DC-DC off.

i would test this by placing a low value fuse in the loop before shorting the two wires, just to make certain.

hopefully this information is useful for others.

Jason.

 

it si usefull to me, I looked at it myself good to have a second opinion, I can have my zephyr run that relay and shut it off, off I go to work on it, I think I will canibalize the bms 16 d and steal that relay, I was going to still use it, hook it up to the pack only just as a monitor, thou from my experiments it is not even that acurate, might just do away with it now.

 

in my experiments I found that the first pin on the right connector is floating, it must be getting it's reading off the #8 cell somehow resulting in a .14 v difference due to probably the resistance in the large wire conecting the 2 packs, it otherwise looked like it could use a recalibration anyhow, it is fine at rest but under load or charge not so much, I'll mess with it some more but if it is inacurate no sense in looking at it at all.
as for your setup. it is great in lack of anything else, or the 16d to rely on, I had my pack manually balanced just like you tought me before plugging it in through the Zephyr for the first charge, and it took a long time from the point where the first cell shunted to where the rest of the pack caught up, and boy did it get hot, had to stop it several times drain some full ones charge the low, I have not yet had a chance to put it through a few cycles due to weather we parked the prius,
and now you have 70 some cells, that is a lot of cellogs, I asume you got the cheap non logging type ( I would too )
look into the paciffic bms, you're pretty smart, it looks to me like an assembly of hobbyking stuff, they use cell logs and 350 ma balancing boards, bet they are generic right off HK shelves, and a relay box, wonder if you could put something together on the cheap in that manner, you allready have the cell logs, the rest should not be too bad, I would have done it had I found out about it this spring, I looked into it after I built the Zephyr trying to figure how they went about shutting off the converter, seriously have a look at theyr site, looks like an assembly of cheap off the shelf HK stuff, it may be a better way to go for you, 350 ma is not much you will fight with it the first time but they should do after that, besides you are not working with 80 ah blocks anymore, come to think of 350ma should be plenty, let me know what you dig up, I am all over it
George