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My new 2005 Prius hybrid battery trouble shooting

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Biopete, Aug 30, 2017.

  1. Biopete

    Biopete Junior Member

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    Thanks. That is the plan. Im curious what other peoples battery numbers look like. Here are mine typically. Voltage and Internal resistance and temp of the three blocks. Also what data should i be looking at ?

    The ir of 10 and 14 is always a little higher than the others.
     

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  2. fotomoto

    fotomoto Senior Member

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    In my limited experience, I've only checked these values while using the grid charger and techstream on an old laptop that needs to be plugged in. IIRC my voltages values were very close (only .01-.02v variance across all 28) and IR were all 27 after the reconditioning.

    FWIW
     
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  3. Biopete

    Biopete Junior Member

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    This is great! Thanks so much. I'll post after my reconditioning and post back.
     
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  4. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Bio,

    Here's something I can offer you. I have a Gen 2 battery that I built using the modules from (2) 2013 Prius C cars. (the Cs only have 20 modules in the pack). I had installed it in my son's car and he drove it until I needed to install a Dorman into his car to test it. The dorman was owned by another forum member and was only 15 months old when it failed. I installed a Gen 2 with Gen3 modules in the forum members car and rebuilt the Dorman. We plan to leave the dorman in my son's car for long term testing/evaluation. The Dorman was installed in his car about 3 months ago. We put his battery on a shelf in the garage as we weren't sure at the time how long we wanted to leave the Dorman installed. I just checked the voltages on all the modules 5 minutes ago. They are all 7.60 to 7.61 How's that for being well balanced after sitting on a shelf for 3 months? That's the advantage of using newer modules, no grid charging required. A 0.01v variation certainly shows there are no internal discharge problems with any of the 28 modules. This pack could sit on the shelf and would still be perfectly usable over a year from now.
     
    #24 TMR-JWAP, Sep 2, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  5. Biopete

    Biopete Junior Member

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    Thanks! Sounds awesome. Just what i am after. Pm sent !
     
  6. Biopete

    Biopete Junior Member

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    I got my grid charger yesterday! Yay. Hooked up and running. Super easy install. 4 wires.

    Thanks Maxx Volts for the immediate shipping and great support! They are knocking it out of the park support wise. I never saw much online on this company or grid chargers in general about how helpful they are for prius and it made it hard to pull the trigger on a 430.00 charger and decide which one, and do i need discharge option, yada yada. So hopefully this thread will help.


    I pulled the trigger early morning Thursday and ordered after emailing with Maxx back and forth a couple hours and it arrived saturday / yesterday usps. Product looks good. I got the timer with wifi iphone control. Not sure ill use that. I think it was $430.00 or something. There is no discharge option. Maxx says it is dangerous ... im not really sure what is what on that bit i was glad to not have to spend more money. Seems easy to build a discharger anyway :) lightbulb anyone ?

    Super easy install. 4 wires only. I wanted to see what my battery looked like so i took off cover.

    Its been on now for about 8 hrs. I cant wait to drive it amd read the numbers. Here are some shots of my battery and the charger when i first turmed it on and what it reads now.

    The battery was sitting pretty charged up when i first turned it on. I was expecting it to be closer to 200

    Thanks
     

    Attached Files:

  7. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    o_O
    Hmmmmm… …neither am I. I think I would appreciate some clarification here! Thanks in advance!

    BTW: Welcome to PriusChat!!! :)
     
  8. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Unfortunately, without being able to deep discharge the modules, I question how much this will improve the battery capacity compared to the Prolong model that also performs discharge. It will be interesting to see short term vs long term results

    Isn't this essentially just a high voltage/low amperage battery charger with a timer? Modules with low capacity reach their charge capacity first and then just generate heat while the other modules continue to charge toward their max capacity? At the end of the charge, all modules are theoretically at each of their capacities, but their capacities could be extremely varied, which merely hides the problem temporarily?

    I may be looking at this wrong or just a bit weak on this subject. Anyone feel like learnin' me on this?:rolleyes:
     
    #28 TMR-JWAP, Sep 3, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
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  9. JC91006

    JC91006 Senior Member

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    You can build a light bulb discharger for $3 ($1.50 ea at home depot).

    It's very crucial to discharge in the reconditioning process.
     
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  10. WilDavis

    WilDavis Senior Member

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    I think that doing the charging without the discharging only solves part of the problem, there are many threads here on exactly why it is necessary to do both. Search is your friend, along with the terms "Prolong" "Grid Charging" "Hybrid Automotive" "Preventative Maintenance"! Good luck!
     
  11. ericbecky

    ericbecky Hybrid Battery Hero

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    Not sure why you chose Maxx over purchasing from a company that supports this forum. Hybrid Automotive is a vendor here on Priuschat and has helped sponsor Priuschat site and get togethers.

    Anyway...

    It's easy to build a charger or a discharger.

    A hv charger is simply a power supply. Plug into the wall. Attach to the pack positive to positive, negative to negative.
    Maybe add on a few safety things like fuses, diodes, an enclosure, and another 12v supply to run the fan.

    Take a look at Hybrid Automotive's web site for more information on discharging.
     
  12. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    It looks a whole lot like my old Prolong charger.

    IMG_6483.png
     
  13. Biopete

    Biopete Junior Member

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    Yes. This was the explanation given to me. It keeps charging and soaks any lagging cells for 4 hours so they all reach. I'm about to go read my numbers. What kind of charger do you have Jim?

    I couldn't find much real world data beyond "It helped me once" on Maxx-Volts chargers on any grid charger for longterm data independent of the respective websites marketing testimonial pages. Things like like "I got 50,000 more miles from my battery grid charging every month, " Or , "My car only throws a code every 6 mos now and I grid charge it and am good to go" , or "When i get a bad cell , I get a used cell off ebay, grid charge it and I am good for another year until another cell wears out"
     
  14. Biopete

    Biopete Junior Member

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    Thanks All. Sponsoring is a form of advertising so I don't care unless I already know about the two products and they were the same and then I would buy from a sponsor. Basically i saw three grid chargers -- prolong, maxx-volts , and another one that bought the 99mpg plans. Prolong wanted 300 more bucks for a discharge kit which turned me off a bit. And JC and you saying i can build a discharge system for 3.00 makes me think my suspicions were correct. Maxx-volts was quick to answer my questions and support has been good and I liked the look of it. So here we are.

    My goal is to understand what is practical to do with these battery packs versus just getting a new one. I'm thinking both for myself as a DIY wanting to save a buck and regular people who will be looking for advice and direction from their mechanic. I have a lot of friends with Prius's and have a shop at my house. Though it is just my part time weekend job, I work on a lot of other people's cars.

    It may be practical for me to charge and discharge my pack every year and replace modules and keep it going but will that be practical for customers to pay me to do that? Can you charge and then charge and discharge at a later date when you have more time?

    It would be ideal to just be able to drive the car in ev mode to discharge it and monitor the battery. Is that possible? I need to read about the discharging.

    Does anyone have any longterm data using their grid charger?

    Thanks
     
  15. Biopete

    Biopete Junior Member

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    Ha, exactly like it. How is it working for you? What is your procedure? How long has it extended your battery pack. Any numbers before and after use?

    As an aside, did prolong copy Maxx or Maxx copy prolong? Not that it matters. Lol.
     
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  16. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    The model I have was the first for Prolong and came out in 2014. AFAIK, they were the first and it is patented. I got mine in late 2014.

    Coincidentally, I just answered part of your question on post #3 in this thread:
    Anyone using Prolong for a long time? | PriusChat
    As for the procedure, I follow the instructions on Jeff's site. Prolong Grid Charger Product Guides – Hybrid Automotive
    Following them is critical. Not following them can get expensive. I have a post about that around here, too. This is not for the squeamish! ;) Augh!! P3000, P0A80, P3021, C1259 on an '07 | PriusChat

    But, if you do it like you're supposed to, it's fabulous.
     
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  17. Biopete

    Biopete Junior Member

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    Ok. Here are my numbers after 12 hr on grid charger and then resting for an hour before driving. It settled at 241 V.

    Notes
    1. The soc is 59.5 %. Is that normal? Interesting ? Why not 100% ?

    2. The ir was all the same and didnt jump around and be different during the drive. They started at .019 then migrated up to .027 ohm in my short drive. Ut didnt fluctuate.

    3. Voltage was all pretty even. The diff between min and max as i drove (hard to tell really safely while driving ) was mostly around .1 but occasionally .3 v

    How do these numbers look?
    I ran max ac right away and no codes.

    One thing is when im just reading the battery module voltsges at a stand still with ignition on and car off , they move a little bit between polls of the scanner. Is that normal? Or should they just be steady ?

    Thanks.
     

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  18. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Take a look at this post.

    Help with my battery | PriusChat

    It discusses capacity of prius modules. The drawing in the post can be considered to be 4 modules from the same battery pack.
     
  19. Biopete

    Biopete Junior Member

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    Thanks, Jim. Hmm. So are you suggesting that my older battery modules just don't make up as big of a "tank" as they used to , thus the 60% SOC after charging for 12 hrs?

    P.S. Are you going to get back to me on that battery pack? I'm definitely interested :)
     
  20. stockdaddy

    stockdaddy Member

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    Rebuilding a battery pack carries about the same logic as rebuilding your lighting system in your home with random used light bulbs for every single light fixture after 1 burns out.

    Replace battery block 10, problem solved.