1st E-Supercharged Prius Build, WIP/doesn't work......

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Accessories and Modifications' started by 2ZR JDM, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. 2ZR JDM

    2ZR JDM Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    104
    133
    7
    Location:
    Redondo Beach
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    Hey ya'll, I thought I start a thread since i started getting a lot of PM's about my Supercharger setup.

    The electronic supercharger is a custom "home brewed" kit. Basically its the compressor side of a turbo with a direct drive high powered brushless motor attached to it. Here are the specs.
    Drive power: 4000 Watts
    Motor efficiency: ~92%
    Max airflow: ~400 CFM
    Pressure range: up to 1.3 PR
    Compressor efficiency: ~73%
    IMG_2877.JPG
    IMG_2915.jpg IMG_2916.jpg



    This supercharger demands so much energy I had to give it it's own 28 volt, 40 Ah battery pack in the trunk.
    IMG_2917.jpg
    The added battery pack is being charged by a 28 volt battery charger that feeds off the Prius 12 volt system.

    The supercharger is activated by a micro switch at the bottom at the accel pedal. Pushing the accel past 95% will trip this micro switch. To the left of the steering wheel I have a potentiometer so I can dial in the "boost". So far it isnt a closed loop boost controller. It just simply limits the power going to the SC motor. Eventually when/if I get this setup working I'll program a micro-controller to manage the boost.
    IMG_2908.jpg

    If you know your electronics you can see this isn't your typical e-SC or e-turbo systems you see being sold on ebay. This will produce a few PSIs.
     
  2. 2ZR JDM

    2ZR JDM Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    104
    133
    7
    Location:
    Redondo Beach
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    The Problem:

    When boosting over 0PSI (Gauge), 1.5 PSI (OBD reader), I'm hitting either a fuel cut or throttle shut down. On the OBD i can see the throttle basically slam shut. So I'm thinking either I have a boost leak, running to lean/rich, or Toyota program our ECU to say hell no to the boost. :cry::mad::mad:(n)

    Thing's I've tried:

    • Performed boost leak test. The only thing I suspect of leaking is the brake booster line and EGR valve. Tried blocking the EGR and brake booster lines.
      • DIDN'T WORK, No Difference.
    • Filled up with 91 octane and used those octane booster additive from Autozone.
      • As a precaution.
    • Disabled the MAP sensor
      • DIDN'T WORK. But instead of the throttle slamming shut it slowly closes (2 seconds) until it reaches 0 PSI, the car still pull unlike when the MAP sensor is working the engine just momentarily stops.
    • Different Boost Levels, 1 to 5 PSI boosting from different speeds/MPH.
      • DIDN'T WORK. One thing I did notice. If I start boosting after 5 seconds of leaving the accel pedal 100%, the ECU would slowly bring the boost down to 0 PSI as it did when i disabled the MAP sensor.
    • Moved the MAF sensor before and after the compressor.
      • DIDN'T WORK, No Difference.
    • Manually controlled the TB to stay open electronically.
      • DIDN'T WORK, the ECU got pissed off, disabled the engine 100% making my Prius a pure EV and my dash lit up like a Christmas tree w a bunch of errors.
      • Here a video of the electronic throttle position holder I made: Dropbox - TB Sw.MOV
      • 2017-03-17 17_47_02-Movies & TV.jpg
    • Moved the Throttle body before the compressor. IDK why I tried this but I just had to and it involved borrowing a TB from my wife's Lexus IS.
      • DIDN'T WORK and she didn't know I touched her Lexus
      • IMG_2935.jpg
    Things I'm going to try:
    • Unplug both O2 sensors. Maybe the ECU is reading to lean of a condition and is protecting itself. If this works then I'll invest in a better fuel system.
    • Upgrade the traction battery. An option I may not what to pursue.
      • I talked to Brian Fox, he's successfully supercharged his Lexus CT200h which has the same engine as our Prius and he said he didn't need to flash/piggyback his ECU to make his supercharge setup work. The only thing he had to do was beef up his traction battery pack. Unfortunately that's all the details he gave me.
    • TBD- Whatever you guys come up with. :barefoot:
    • .
    • ...
    • ....
    • Give up? - At least I tried.
     
    #2 2ZR JDM, Mar 17, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
  3. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    1,824
    613
    75
    Location:
    Carrollton, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    Thanks for starting this thread! Glad you were able to reference Julian's work and issues he had with the Gen1 NHW10.
     
  4. 2ZR JDM

    2ZR JDM Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    104
    133
    7
    Location:
    Redondo Beach
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    More to come when I actually have time to sit and type. Wrote the first two post in 15 mins so excuse my crappy writtin
     
  5. TheChip

    TheChip Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    43
    78
    0
    Location:
    Misissippi
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Looking forward to hearing more about this!

    Before it slows down, how does it pull?
     
  6. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    1,824
    613
    75
    Location:
    Carrollton, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    I'll probably run into something similar with my build.

    e279bd38-03af-4493-aef7-f14a1a31bf1e.jpg

    f78c3ca4-9112-422c-bd83-7f6452bff5e6.jpg


    Originally Posted by Julian Edgar

    Throttle Shut-Down

    "So what was making the electronic throttle momentarily close itself at full power? If in fact it was because the hybrid system couldn’t cope with the extra power, the effect would be most pronounced when power was at its maximum...say, on a cold night. And that’s just what proved to be the case. When the weather provided me with an 11-degree C evening, I was able to get the throttle-shutdown to repeatedly occur. (But what about those inconsistent full-load mixtures? Well, if the air/fuel ratio meter was watched like a hawk, it was possible to get in peak power runs with the mixtures satisfactorily rich. You just couldn’t do it consistently.)

    So the obvious answer to the automatically closing throttle was to lower boost at the very top end, so reducing power. Since the greatest driving improvement over standard occurred due to the mid-range boost, dropping boost a bit at peak power would make very little difference. But how to decrease boost? With the ex-Subaru IHI turbo’s wastegate connected, 7 psi was the minimum boost available – and that’s what I was running. (The boost level had risen from 6 to 7 psi with the redesigned intake plumbing.) Modifying the turbo wastegate actuator to achieve a lower boost was possible, but it would mean taking off the turbo to access the wastegate actuator. Which in turn would mean removing a front driveshaft, taking off the exhaust, draining the ‘gearbox’ of oil, and so on. A lot of work.

    Instead, was it possible to bleed off some of the boost? Already in the system was a GFB blow-off valve running a shortened internal spring – a modification performed on the valve when it was fitted to the supercharged car as a recirc valve. In this design of valve, boost pushes on the base of the piston, trying to open it against both the internal spring pressure and the pressure in the boost-sensing hose. If the boost being fed in via the hose was reduced, it was likely that the internal piston would be pushed open, so allowing some boost to escape. By placing a bleed solenoid in the boost pressure feed hose, the pressure in this hose could be regulated. using the Independent Electronic Boost Control (IEBC) kit, the action of this solenoid valve could be mapped.

    The system was quickly set up and the solenoid valve opening set to 0 per cent at lower injector duty cycles. (The IEBC kit sets its output duty cycles on the basis of input injector duty cycles. That is, any relationship between injector duty cycle – ie engine load – and output duty cycles can be set via the hand controller.) At higher engine loads, the solenoid was gradually brought on line, until at very high engine loads, it was completely open, so acting as a bleed of the boost pressure in the feed hose to the blow-off valve.

    The mapping of the control system was initially done very coarsely but the system soon showed it was possible to drop boost to 5 psi at the top end of the engine power band. This stopped the auto throttle shut-down procedure – the system was sufficiently sensitive that even a 2 psi boost decrease made enough difference."
     
    Tracksyde, Montgomery and Dylan Doxey like this.
  7. TheChip

    TheChip Junior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2017
    43
    78
    0
    Location:
    Misissippi
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    II
    If youre giving it full boost before the ICE has time to spool up, it may be causing the issue. Try getting the ICE spooled up and then giving it 5 PSI.
     
    #7 TheChip, Mar 17, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017
    Justdidit likes this.
  8. kevinwhite

    kevinwhite Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2006
    268
    136
    0
    Location:
    Los Gatos Ca
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius
    Model:
    Four
    Do you know how much margin there is in the torque from MG1?

    One issue with getting more power out of the ICE in a Prius is that MG1 has to provide the balance torque for the engine - as you increase the engine torque there will be some point where MG1 will not be able to rotate at the commanded speed even with maximum allowed current from the controller (it will tend to go backwards) and the system will lose control. Before that happens I would expect the system to protect itself by for example closing the throttle. I wonder if that is happening?

    kevin
     
  9. 2ZR JDM

    2ZR JDM Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    104
    133
    7
    Location:
    Redondo Beach
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    I've tried setting it as low as ~1 PSI and my TB is still shutting close. :mad:
     
  10. 2ZR JDM

    2ZR JDM Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    104
    133
    7
    Location:
    Redondo Beach
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    This sorta make sense, but I'm wondering how was Julian Edgar able to do it on his Prius? I cant even get away with ~1 PSI of boost. Maybe the 1st gen Prius had a stronger motor or was this safeguard not programmed into the ECU?
     
  11. 2ZR JDM

    2ZR JDM Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    104
    133
    7
    Location:
    Redondo Beach
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    Good luck, I hope u can pull it off without all the roadblocks I'm dealing with.
     
  12. 2ZR JDM

    2ZR JDM Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    104
    133
    7
    Location:
    Redondo Beach
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    FYI, I've updated my 2nd post
     
  13. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    1,824
    613
    75
    Location:
    Carrollton, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    Any way this is related to the fuel pressure? Possibly the A/F ratios? The OBD will only read what the ECU is telling the car it needs to be at. Not necessarily what the actual AFRs are. My Torque app is always in the 14s unless i let off the gas after a long run of WOT. Then i see the AFRs run lean. But during the WOT, the car is adding a LOT of timing. Not sure if this is the extra air its getting with the intake setup or the free flowing exhaust i have. I know i'll need to run a Wideband AFR setup to see what the car is actually running VS what the OBD is telling the car to run. Its next on my list along with aftermarket oil pressure and boost monitoring gauges.

    Julian ended up running a return line and 2nd fuel pump because he was experiencing issues with not enough. Ended up with something around 85psi fuel pressure to maintain air/fuel ratio of around 12:1 – 12.5:1 under WOT.

    Another thing to check is the voltage on the MAF. If the voltage is out-of-range of what the ECU can handle. Think our max is 5.0v. May need to look into voltage clamping the MAF.
     
  14. RightOnTime

    RightOnTime Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    392
    1,044
    182
    Location:
    Kidnapped in OC, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Such good info - People ^^^


    iPhone ?
     
  15. 2ZR JDM

    2ZR JDM Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    104
    133
    7
    Location:
    Redondo Beach
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Five
    Things I'm going to try:
    • Unplug both O2 sensors. Maybe the ECU is reading to lean of a condition and is protecting itself. If this works then I'll invest in a better fuel system.
    • Upgrade the traction battery. An option I may not what to pursue.
    • Voltage clamp the MAF
    • Voltage clamp the MAP
    • TBD- Whatever you guys come up with. :barefoot:
    • ....
    • Give up and go back to my cold air intake setup? At least I tried.
     
  16. 2ZR JDM

    2ZR JDM Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    104
    133
    7
    Location:
    Redondo Beach
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Five
  17. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2015
    974
    945
    2
    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius
    Model:
    Two
    This thread is awesome. I look forward to seeing a Turbo Prius! Especially if you could control when it engages.
     
  18. edspecR

    edspecR Junior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    91
    55
    0
    Location:
    Oakland
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius c
    Model:
    Two
  19. RightOnTime

    RightOnTime Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2012
    392
    1,044
    182
    Location:
    Kidnapped in OC, CA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Thanks for stopping by the shop to share us your project! We all got to put our minds together to get all the Gremlin's out (y)

    Was looking forward for my MAP controller to help alleviate your issue's - but :mad::mad:
     
    sfv41901 and Justdidit like this.
  20. Justdidit

    Justdidit LVNPZEV

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2012
    1,824
    613
    75
    Location:
    Carrollton, Texas
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    Four Touring
    Did you try a Tom's Fuel Map Controller?

    Anyone try the SS Voltage clamp yet? VC3-100 Voltage Clamp |
     
Loading...